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Anyone care to comment on how pedestrian friendly these spots are? I do NOT mean to restrict to exactly that view and not the nearby surroundings. If people respond, I could comment on my view of them for personal experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
Here are some more views. To all posters, which would commercial streets find more walkable? Which would you want to walk in? Avoid walking if practical:
there's no intention of cherry picking, the second link in particular varies, I had to pick somewhere.
Not trying to pick on posters too much, but sometimes I reads like more comments about "hip shops" are posted more by those arguing with the "urbanists" than by those interested in walkable neighborhoods. It reads mostly as stereotype tossing, there's plenty of posts on being able to walk to useful things.
Anyone care to comment on how pedestrian friendly these spots are? I do NOT mean to restrict to exactly that view and not the nearby surroundings. If people respond, I could comment on my view of them for personal experience.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Green...2,1.99,,0,4.65 > pretty good, the street looks a little shady, which I would skip on a sunny day. Could use more landscaping, benches and the like. I noticed a bike rack, but it is hard to say if it a good bike spot. This looks like a quiet street, I didn't see crosswalks, but I imagine there is a lot of jaywalking too.
What I also like, on the places that push things over the top for feeling walkable, are the sidewalk seating, and plazas on the sidewalk to relax and stuff. It encourages you to stop for conversation. And of course trees and landscaping. And nice lighting.
There are some underpasses and overpasses there. It's not like the neighborhood is entirely cut off from the rest of the city.
Most of the people living there now were not living there before the highways were built some 50+ years ago. They don't know anything different. It's possible they don't even care. They may have formed new relationships with the Swansea-Elyria to the east.
I'm not much for analogies, but I'm going to use one here. The tiny elementary school in my parents' old neighborhood, where my brother and I went, was closed down and kids sent to a nearby school (which was the reason for closure). My parents, and probably others of their generation, went on about the closure until almost literally their dying days. When my bro and I sold the house, the new owners told us one thing that "sold" them on the house was the neighborhood school! People can adapt.
Now for the third time, I will say I don't think that was the appropriate location for I-70. But it is what it is.
Note that in the "power center" shots, there is nobody on the sidewalk. In the more "strip mall" scaled shots, people visible are close to the shops themselves, not the sidewalks. And of course the shots where shops are built up to the street have the most pedestrians--and judging from the upper stories, the most mixed-use buildings. Businesses of various sorts: drugstores, laundromats and banks, along with coffee shops, ethnic markets, and churches. In other words, the kind of things that neighborhood residents use on a regular basis, and can probably walk to pretty easily. The streets are narrow and full of obstacles, which means traffic probably isn't super fast--pedestrians cross where it is safe to cross, not necessarily at crosswalks. A narrow, low-speed street is safe to cross in mid-block if there are no cars coming.
Neither option is very appealing to me, but I guess if I have to choose, I'd choose option two. Since I'm not much into climbing over a 20 foot wall, and playing real life Froger across six lanes of freeway traffic.
Come on, you could scale that wall or dodge that traffic to get to where you need to go on foot! What, do you walkers really need to spend tax money on beautifying a sidewalk? What a bunch of whiners. Next thing you'll be asking for is eminent domain to widen the sidewalks, and we all know what that will lead to....*GASP* complete conversion of highways into bike lanes with one lane of traffic on each side. Filthy urbanistas and your "accommodations".
Most of the people living there now were not living there before the highways were built some 50+ years ago. They don't know anything different. It's possible they don't even care. They may have formed new relationships with the Swansea-Elyria to the east.
I'm not much for analogies, but I'm going to use one here. The tiny elementary school in my parents' old neighborhood, where my brother and I went, was closed down and kids sent to a nearby school (which was the reason for closure). My parents, and probably others of their generation, went on about the closure until almost literally their dying days. When my bro and I sold the house, the new owners told us one thing that "sold" them on the house was the neighborhood school! People can adapt.
Now for the third time, I will say I don't think that was the appropriate location for I-70. But it is what it is.
The OP asked how interstate construction harmed communities. Some posters were skeptical that they harmed communities at all, so this particular neighborhood was used as an example.
Sure the neighborhood adapted. The people of Europe adapted to the destruction of WWII, too. It's hard to say what Europe would be like if the damage from WWII never happened, but "it is what it is."
Finally, I think the greater point of this thread is that those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.
The crosswalks are pretty indirect. when you let's start on the Whole Foods side, and need to get to Wheel Works, it takes 4 crosswalks (all on different cycles.) So you need to walk, wait, walk, wait. Lots of jaywalking over there because the signal cycle is really annoying.
Gotcha. Those continuous right turn lanes are troublesome; drivers don't seem to think they need to stop at the crosswalk.
So much could be improved with better signals and physical markings.
Gotcha. Those continuous right turn lanes are troublesome; drivers don't seem to think they need to stop at the crosswalk.
So much could be improved with better signals and physical markings.
Yep, sometimes little things make a big difference. The "unwalkable" intersections I can think of, probably have a numbers ways they can be improved without too much change, but they don't get much pedestrians anyway.
NYC tries to solve the right turning car problem by not allowing right on red almost anywhere. But then there's the issue of cars turning right on green: the turning car has the right of way but so do the crossing pedestrians. The cars should yield (if anything because turning traffic yield to traffic going straight) but what if there are so many pedestrians that a car might not be able to turn before the light changes? Aggressive driving is the result. I've gotten a bit more understanding of turning cars in NYC after driving there, but a lot of the drivers are just impatient.
That is one thing that is not visible with street view...signal timing!
That intersection looks like it could be improved by a diagonal signal: a walk signal that's walk in all directions and a red light for all car traffic. The intersection is complicated as it is, so it would save a lot of crosses. As long as there's enough pedestrians, it'd be worth it.
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Neither option is very appealing to me, but I guess if I have to choose, I'd choose option two. Since I'm not much into climbing over a 20 foot wall, and playing real life Froger across six lanes of freeway traffic. 
