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I was fired on the 25th of July 2019 for using the company credit card they opened in my name to advance myself about $84 over a weeks time that I told the owner of the company I would pay back.
They seemed fine with this as it's a small company, I asked the owner on Saturday July 21st and was fired Thursday July 25th the day I got paid, The morning of the day I was fired I called the Co-Owner who I guess wasn't aware of the money spent but I called him letting him know I had gotten paid and was coming to the office to pay the company back and he said "Sure thing not a problem"
I was getting gas about 20 minutes later and the other co owner (Three people total) called me and told me to stay home they would just come collect the money since I had no route to work that day anyway.
I asked him if everything was alright and they said "Of course we have an inspection to do in your area anyway"
Two hours later they show up with paperwork in their hand, My gut was uneasy because the other tech (I was one of two techs working)
Was blowing up my phone about how unfair it was I didn't have a route and he did (We were paid salary I wasn't sure how he even knew I wasn't working) and was going on about how I must be the new favorite and he was going to quit, which I responded "I'm not sure about that dude"
They both approached me saying "Well we have good news and bad news which do you want first" and I responded Give me the bad news, They said "We have to fire you, It's not our decision but Cole said he cannot trust you based off another bad employee we had, Even know your great and customers love you we just can't trust you to be a tech."
I said Alright.... Well whats the good news, "Well since customers like you so much and your good at talking we think you could be a door to door salesman for us, full commission paid $100 per contract, $50 once it starts and $50 once it ends, Paid twice yearly in two lump sums, People make alot of money yadda yadda"
I said guys I don't have a vehicle the reason I work for you in pest control is because it gives me access to a work vehicle, Would you be willing to pick me up and drop me off everyday, They grumbled and didn't respond, They then handed me some paperwork about my termination, One being a blank page mostly consisting of "Was the employee warned" which was blank and in my frustration I marked and X through because I was told not signing a termination letter is grounds for termination based off insubordination, The letter said "Violated company policy" marked an X through and a bunch of other boxes which were blank, I signed it saying I disagree but here, and they had my sign another paper showing the amount I had spent, I then paid them the exact amount I had spent cash like I had intended because I wasn't trying to rob them, That's why I informed them first.
So point being I was never warned or signed any policy about the credit card, it was handed to me and was told I was responsible for any charges made not related to the business, which was included in the letter with the card, I thought it was odd I got a credit card instead of a gas card but it was a small business I wasn't overthinking it and happy to be working, I really enjoyed doing my job.
I told the two co owners I'd think about the salesman position even though it was unreasonable, Mind you a few days before this I was inquiring about payroll because my checks seemed short and the payroll department was the co owners wife who the day before I was fired informed me they changed the pay system from BiWeekly to Bi Monthly and the other tech told me the co owners haven't even been paid, The day after I heard this I was fired, which seemed to me like they couldn't afford to pay me full time salary with the amount of work they had.
Point I'm posting on here is I was denied unemployment they claimed I used the card to the UI board to purchase medicine and alcohol which is absolutely untrue, I used it at a gas station named K#$% Liquor and Tobacco (Blanked full name for security sake to them) which I had told the owner before I knew the owner of this gas station for about 7 years now and he would hand out business cards for the pest control business, I told the UI board the truth in the fact that I'm a teatotaler and do not consume alcohol I was deeply offended, I got the documents today showing this fact and the big reason I'm here, In the packet it included a write up on 7-25-2019 saying I was being written up for using the company card, and the Co-Owner attempted to forge my signature on the write up, It never happened I wouldn't have signed a write up and a termination letter both being different, I can prove the document is a forgery based off my horrible signature, I've had it for years and his attempt was way too neat and different than every signature I've ever done.
I'm sorry this is longwinded, The evidence I have is little besides the card agreement saying I was responsible for the card charges, I've attempted to call the bank that issued the card because they had to have forged my signature there as well because I looked up the authorization agreement on U.S bank's website for 2019 and I know for a fact I never signed it.
I don't have any text messages as I didn't save them because I wasn't expecting to get fired, all I have is emails to the Owner's wife asking for copies of my new hire paperwork over a month ago and another attempt today before I subpeona them, They also withheld my last check and refused to bring it to me even though it should have been deposited, held it for 4 days past my final paycheck date.... Very childish behavior on their part, mind you most of them are 23-24 years old.
I may not have much of a leg to stand on but figured maybe someone would take some interest.
The determination was "Gross misconduct due to theft"
What state is this? "Gross" is very serious.
In part of your story, it sounds like it was "ok" what you did. There is case law that an employer that forgives you, and then changes their mind can negate the misconduct, but it's probably state specific.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonalexander
Reading some of your posts makes me now know I probably said way too much to the UI board.
Do you have a packet for in preparation for the hearing? You need to make the distinction between what YOU said, what the UI worker got out or made up from listening to you and youn employer, AND what the employer said.
You probably do need the credit card agreement. At both of the companies I worked for that had employee cards, the rule was the EMPLOYEE was ultimately responsible for the charges on the card regardless whether the employer paid the bill or not. This is really important because IF you were the one that was going to be stiffed if your employer didn't pay the bill, then you didn't steal anything, and you made a terrible mistake characterizing it that way.
It's Kansas, I called the bank again today asking for a copy as I know for a fact I never signed such a document, Not concerned with the bank so much as why they felt the need to copy my information without asking me.
I do have the card agreement lemme find it real quick and verbatim what it says,Part two of this Business Card Agreement "Account Features and YOUR use of the Account, 2. You may use the Account to buy lease or other obtain goods or services from participating merchants etc etc promotional stuff, Even if the merchant has not provided you with a sales draft or receipt You are responsible for all purchases made through your account"
I'm not 100% sure the write up was forged now that I look at it, I was frustrated at the time but if I was written up it was at the same moment I was fired, I told the whole story to the UI board which was a little mistranslated saying I said "I could spend the card on whatever I wanted, when I said I was told I would be responsible for any purchases made besides for business.
Which my employeer said I had spent the money on alcohol groceries medicine etc (That's verbatim) and that they knew I needed money but based off my text to the owner they thought I had it handled, which I told the owner I needed to use the card, I may be able to get help but not sure, which He responded, "I'll let the guys know about the fronted money" which text is actually in the packet as evidence.
The "YOU" in the agreement could be referencing the employer. You need more.
I don't like the "fronted money," text. It makes it look like you helped yourself to an interest-free loan at best.
You need to change the narrative.
The easiest way to do that is if YOU are personally responsible for the charges in the event the employer doesn't pay. Then you can make the case that you were spending your own money. That you informed the employer not to pay for your charges, and you stole nothing.
Then ancillary to this, you make the case that the employer said, "OK," at first, and then changed their mind because of what another employee did.
Also, make an issue of the timing. I use more than one card. I tend to grab the one I use the most. I sometimes I make a mistake and put things on the wrong card. You don't want your story to sound like you needed money, but rather that out of habit you just made a mistake at worst, and you IMMEDIATELY tried to fix it. You weren't called on the carpet when the bill came.
All these things will fix your story. If only you had come here BEFORE you filled out that UI application.
Yeah I know I wish I did, will have to let people know about this place in the future,
I also didn't like the "fronted money" part because that was said on the 21st and the spending didn't begin till the 22nd and two charges they said I used were actually gas for the company but I paid them anyway telling them the receipts were in the truck.
as for the timing yeah I told the UI board as well that I frequently accepted cash from customers and never once had an issue returning it to the owners, why would I tell the owner I needed to use the card before I was going to "use it regardless" I waited an entire day after I told them I would need to use it.
I'll calm down a bit try to get some more information about the card, It may indeed be their responsibility reading a bit more on this agreement, but my argument is still going to be, One I never signed any agreement for this card and I'm pretty sure it required at least my signature, two I never intended to steal company money that's why as soon as I got paid I called those two up so I could give them the cash, They claimed I signed a policy when I got hired about company card conduct but in the packet they printed the Non-Compete I signed that stated nothing about company credit cards, I'm mostly frustrated because I was hired and fired in less than a month and the Non-Compete I signed is insane 100 mile radius including jobs that fall into sub categories, like Lawn care for example or any sales that could compete with their business when Pest control is my expertise along with lawn care and we didn't do any lawn services at this company.
Also just a side note everything said on UI last day worked was the 24th they did this to avoid paying me an extra day yet I was terminated on the 25th including a written warning/termination on the 25th....
Correct me if I'm wrong but you can't really fire someone at the same time give them a written warning can you?
"This is a write up for (Redacted). This is a termination of (Redacted) for direct violation of using a company card for personal use in excessive amounts. This termination is effective 7-25-2019.
Just seems odd would have been wiser I'd think to had written me up waited a day then terminated me but maybe I'm wrong.
And just to clarify the Owner lives out of state and since it was his company and not the Co-Owners credit I told him, figuring he would inform his partners that I would be paying them because He's in Utah and we three (Me and the Two Co owners) were in Kansas.
To clarify, UI works on LAST day WORKED, not the day you were actually fired. The reason for that is because some employers stop scheduling you, and days, weeks, and months can go by and the employer never "fires" the person. You are fired when the employer won't let you work and you're not being paid no matter whether the employer told you or not.
I'm still digesting the rest of your post, but this was easy. The point is, don't hang your hat on the 24th vs the 25th.
Sorry to spam but didn't want to have a wall of text, Just a bit confused maybe you could clarify.
In the agreement beginning it says, "In this agreement "You" and "Your" means each individual accepting a solicitation or applying for the Account or otherwise agreeing to be responsible for the Account. "We", "us", and "our" means U.S bank Nation Association, The issuer of the Card and your account creditor. The word "Business" means the sole proprietorship, corporation, association, Etc etc including any Co-Obligors.
Then later in the agreement it says under Responsibly to pay, You agree to pay us for all Purchases, Advances, Balance Transfer, Interest Charges, Account fees and charges, any other transaction charges as provided in this Agreement and, to the extent permitted under applicable law, attorneys fee and collection costs we incur enforcing this Agreement against you. This is the case even if your account is only used by you, or someone to whom you have given Account access.
Again I apologize but wanted to be clear on that, seems like You and Your means myself and We, Our and Us means the bank and Business means just that the owner etc, maybe I'm wrong.
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