$546 Overpayment from 2017 - notified May 2019 - (collect, file, receive, apply)

[Rebelrona]

Background: I am an adjunct professor - I hadn't collected unemployment in like 30 years and when I heard other adjuncts were collecting for Summer - I decided to apply too - that was in 2017. I received a potential overpayment letter on Saturday May 4th 2019 - Called and spoke to someone at EDD who said I didn't even need to respond that she had noted I called. But I wrote a letter anyway - saying I was shocked to get this letter as I had no idea about it so I went into my 2017 files and found the amount they were talking about. It was a pay check from a school I had just started teaching for in the Fall - the check was dated September 7th and was directly deposited into my account - I had to go find the stub via their online service and saw that though it was paid on the 7th, it was for bits of work done the last two weeks in August - though it wasn't the full amount of the EDD checks, so they deducted and the total amount for the two weeks was $546 overpayment. I stated in the letter I saw how this might have happened - and that it was unintentional - a mistake on my part - as I must have thought it was the date it was deposited, hoping since this has never happened before, that they would not charge the 30% penalty which brought the amount up to $709.80.

Time goes by I call in July to make sure they received my letter - the woman said they did. I was about to file for unemployment benefits for this summer so I didn't know what to expect - she said it could take 9 months for the determination of the overpayment.I called a number of times In August as I wanted to take care of the overpayment only to find out on Aug 19th there was a letter in the queue that hadn't been sent yet and basically was a denial - and on top of the 30% penalty they were going to hold benefits for 6 weeks. That amounts to $2700 plus the 163.80 (30%) equals 2863.80 = 424.5% penalty! I spoke to someone at the EDD who said I can file an appeal - and after finding this incredible site, I've been reading these threads.

I really didn't know I did anything wrong. I want to pay the overpayment back though it will be a great hardship but I made a mistake - the penalty and 6 weeks denied benefits-well I only collect 6-7 weeks in the summer and once in a while a week or so at Xmas (once I did that) - it all depends on how long the contracts go till. Without having any income those summer weeks will be horrible for me - I'm not someone who is on unemployment for years (or even months for that matter).It's a bridge for the summer to help.

In reading everything on here, I am requesting an appeal, not on the overpayment but on the penalties. I see what went wrong but did not know it at the time - I was ignorant to the ins and outs of unemployment benefits - PB-224 and PB-418 seem like precedents I can use and I wanted to verify this - plus in my letter for the appeal I state I did not willfully omit or make a false statement - I didn't know that I did anything wrong - It was an honest mistake. Also I didn't collect after those dates as I went back to work - but I was a newbie to this. I can look at my claim history and it shows me putting down monies earned and not getting paid on different certifications. I've shown good faith in all of this. Any other advice - I'd gratefully appreciate - Best regards and thank you

[Chyvan]

You do NOT do your appeal by letter. What you submit for the appeal is actually an appeal REQUEST. "The determination date mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled."

You do NOT talk about getting just the penalties waived.

You do NOT cite precedent decisions.

You testify that you were clueless and pray that you are believed.

I'm not sure I like these parts of your story:

Originally Posted by Rebelrona

as I must have thought it was the date it was deposited, hoping since this has never happened before,

I can look at my claim history and it shows me putting down monies earned and not getting paid on different certifications.

With the first sentence, the instructions on the claim form are clear about "did you work" referencing DATES, not when you got paid. In your story, you mention it was for "bits of work." If you had reason to believe that it wasn't real paid work, but more in line with orientation type stuff, it'll really help.

The other part about reporting your work makes in sound like you were experienced, and knew what to do, so you're hurting your "I was clueless" defense to get the penalties waived.

Work this out better so that you can make the evidence you want to present tell the story you want it say and don't add anything extra to that story if it's just going to hurt you. EDD has every opportunity to send a rep to testify against you. They usually don't.

Think:

Clueless
New to UI
Getting advice from other adjunct professors because it's impossible to call EDD and get this information and comprehension errors occurred.
Didn't think it was actual paid work (and then to sell this, you need a reason for not having called to get it fixed, in the event you get called on the carpet.) I'm thinking maybe one of your adjunct friends might have said, "don't worry about it. EDD will fix it when they contact the school with a DE 1101CZ, and it would get fixed then" This is assuming that you filed your claim form BEFORE you got the paycheck. Then after that you can add, "two years later I forgot all about it."

Now, if the above isn't exactly true, you need to make a story that is true that fits the gist of what you're trying to accomplish. You don't want to get caught in a lie.

If denied by the tribunal ALJ, THEN you can go to the board and rely on the precedents, and take guidance from this guy that did way worse than you: https://www.city-data.com/forum/unemp...mployment.html, but hey, he pulled it off.

This is going to take time so you better budget accordingly.

[Rebelrona]

yes the claim was filed before I got the paycheck. The other experienced stuff was what I know now versus then having educated myself. But I didn't realize I did something wrong then to correct it - until I got the letter in May of this year for 2017. I was trying to piece together what might have happened, and saw that it was not intentional but more due to ignorance on my part. When I got the letter in May, I went through my records form 2017 - and saw this error on my part. But it wasn't intentional by any means - I'm sure they hear that all the time but if you do look at my limited claim forms since - I report everything - and only collect for a short period of time due the summer months not getting paid unfortunately.

The form from the EDD says that I can appeal all or part of the determination. And that I must state why I believe It is wrong in an attached letter - so I should just state The determination is wrong (even though I see the error and will pay the overpayment - I just can't believe the penalties for this honest mistake on my part). And request an appeals hearing? No explanation as they asked for on the form as to why I'm requesting it?

[Rebelrona]

Oh and to add to the part you didn't like - I wasn't clear - sorry - I meant I checked my claims history online when I got this letter- afraid if I did something wrong there. So the claim history shows that I collect only for a limited time - I'm not on unemployment habitually (6-7 weeks when there is no work for adjuncts in the summer) - and that I have put down any earned money - I just don't know what happened on that two week claim in 2017 - I was clueless. Also that school was a new one for me.

But as I stated - I looked at all the claim records history - as I feared "did I do this any other time?"- it looks like I did 2018 correctly - I just don't know how I messed up on the year before -

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by Rebelrona

No explanation as they asked for on the form as to why I'm requesting it?

Being "wrong," is a reason.

[Rabrrita]

Originally Posted by Chyvan

Being "wrong," is a reason.

meaning the Determination was wrong, not you.

[janja1]

You were probably a bit too quick to admit that you were in error.

I had a similar thing occur quite some time ago (I think about 10 years or so ago.)

I also received a notice that I was overpaid MUCH later.

I contacted my employer's payroll office to ask why they reported I made X amount the week of ___. I could not have made that amount. School hadn't even started yet. AND it was more than I made in a month when school did start.

Payroll told me they did not report wages weekly. They reported them quarterly. But apparently, someone in UI thought I had made that amount in one week (a week that I was still collecting UI).

I appealed (and at that time I wrote it all out because I didn't know any better). I received pretty much the same decision in response. (In that case, they did a "reconsideration" before the hearing.)

I asked for a hearing, which was schedule. However, the hearing was later cancelled and I was told I didn't owe anything.

Schools can be different in how they pay. One school I work for pays based on time in the classroom. Our pay starts when we walk in the classroom and stops they day we walk out of the classroom. (They pay by actual contact hours.) The other school does twice a month pays which, depending on the semester, either starts before we are actually teaching or ends after we have stopped teaching. They chunk it all together.(They pay per semester per class.) Even now, it is a bit difficult to figure out for UI. Am I employed when they say they began paying me, or when I actually started teaching? Likewise at the end of the semester. When did I actually stop working?

So before you admit that you made an error (or admit it again), you might want to check again and make sure that you did. It could just be the way the handle payroll. And if they are just now following up on it, it might not be reporting when you actually worked (or got paid).

[Chyvan]

Janja1, once again, your experience amazes me. I never would have thought of this in a million years because I've always been a paid-by-the-hour kind of employee.

[Rebelrona]

Thank you both - janja1, You hit the nail on the head and this was the first time I had collected UI benefits in 30+ years - The whole adjunct thing is very confusing - and currently I'm teaching 5 classes at 4 schools. And they all pay differently and start and end dates are different.

In 2017 I was teaching at 3 schools that Fall Semester - I looked back on my calendar to make sense of what happened - and it looks like school didn't start till the week after the weeks in question. In looking at my 2017 calendar, It looks like I had some meetings with the Chair of the program end of Aug 19th and also was putting together the syllabus for the class before the week class started w/e 8/26. Class started on 8/31 And I didn't get paid till September 7 (which obviously includes those weeks in August) - It's hard to reconstruct what was in my head - I didn't physically start teaching till the 31st but I see I was doing prep and meetings.
The week ending Sept 1 was the first week I physically taught and I did put down on the claims benefit what I made that week and didn't collect any more from EDD till the next summer break. The whole fraud thing throws me for a loop because I didn't knowingly do this on purpose - I was clueless for sure - I don't know whether to fight this or not - The penalties are incredibly harsh especially with 6 weeks of denied benefits that I count on in the summer. Hard to believe that for $546 overpayment I'd get a 424% penalty. . But I know in my heart I did not knowingly do this on purpose.

[Chyvan]

It's 30% on the actual dollar amount. The penalty for the penalty weeks is for the supposed LYING, and what can really cost you. It doesn't cost everyone. YOU, yes because you get UI regularly, but someone that doesn't collect for the next 6 years doesn't feel the pain because it eventually goes away.

We had a thread where someone wasn't reporting the $25 in earnings for many weeks to the tune of about $225 because his friend told that he got the $25 excluded (not knowing that EDD's computers took care of the substraction). It cost him way more than 424% because more weeks meant money "false" claim forms meant more penalty weeks.

If you tell this story right, you just might end up with NO overpayment.

It IS worth fighting. It's not just about you. EDD does this to LOTS of people, and if more appealed and succeeded, EDD would quit throwing the book at people.