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Old 03-14-2024, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
5,457 posts, read 8,173,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I believe the granddaughter’s memories more than I believe those of people who never even met Paley but are clearly profiting from presenting a sensationalized version of her to audiences. Moreover, even if some of the Feud characterization of Paley is true, the point is that the portraits of all of the characters in this series are very one-dimensional.
The granddaughter was nine years old when Babe Paley died.
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Old 03-14-2024, 10:37 AM
Status: "Pickleball-Free American" (set 2 hours ago)
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,458 posts, read 44,061,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suesbal View Post
It is true that William Paley was a compulsive womanizer.
Compulsive being the operative word. Treat Williams played his moments of indiscretion as if he were in some sort of dissociative state.
The dynamic between the Paleys really made me uncomfortable. There never seemed to be any genuine affection between them. From her he got rage and entreaties; from him she got denials and placations (coupled with generous gifts). I've known the pain of a faithless husband, but I found my empathy for her character dwindling away over the course of the story.
Another chapter in Answered Prayers, Mojave (also published in Esquire), is alleged to have been Capote's take on the Paley's relationship. If true, then he would be guilty of delivering a double whammy to the Paleys.

https://classic.esquire.com/mojave-truman-capote/
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Old 03-14-2024, 01:17 PM
 
5,276 posts, read 6,209,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I read the article as well. It was scathing. At the end of the article, she rightfully shamed the show’s [male] creators for profiting from her grandmother’s legacy by misogynisticaly distorting Paley’s character. And I think that the granddaughter’s critique is very on point: the characterizations of Capote and these women are one-dimensional and, even, sordid in an almost tabloidesque fashion because the show’s creators decided that was the best way to dramatize and thereby capitalize on the story, which is unfortunate. Such a missed opportunity.

If the creators had written nuanced and complicated characterizations of these women and Capote, then there would have been much more of a story and the series would have been interesting. Instead, they just gave us the same worn out and tired narrative of a bitchy, promiscuous gay man and his bitchy, rich frenemies. So disappointing.
I've actually found myself reading up on these characters since the show started as I knew of Lee Radziwill and Pamela Harriman from political bios and CZ Guest because of her style impact (she was a muse for major midcentury photographer.)

I think the grand-daughter has rose colored glasses. She was also the granddaughter not one of the children so its possible 60 year old Babe Paley was a different person than 30 or 40 something babe Paley or she was warmer to grandchildren than her children or acquaintances beyond a tight circle. When their children were young, they were kept in the Hamptons while Bill/Babe lived in a city during the week and came home on weekends. When Babe is giving Bill directions on Italian food and dressing the breakfast nook for Amanda's children while receiving chemo, this was one of the 2 children. Amanda Burden has been pretty open about having a non-existent relationship with her mother (and it was the other daughter he has to beg to come see her.) And both the daughter and granddaughter (and one might argue Babe Paley herself) had husbands who apparently married them for the stature and connections then either cheated (babe and granddaughter) or ended the marriage when they wife proved self-sufficient (Amanda Burden.) The daughter/mother (Burden) actually had a very prominent career that seemed to coincide with her marriage ending. Then she dated Charlie Rose who was apparently a dog... I also wonder if the Paley dynamic was the mother got along with sons and the father with the daughters.

Slim Keiths stepdaughter wrote a book about her life and has Slim in the acknowledgements (and not Pamela Harriman who was stepmom 3.) so I'll assume she was not too distant. And CZ's daughter has given 801 interviews through the years that make it sound like they butted heads but had a constant relationship. She even mentions both of them going out with Truman. She seems to both revere and tease her mother. Lee was apparently self absorbed- her daughter actually lived with Jackie O at one point (who was apparently the most active parent of the Kennedys aside from Eunice and Ted who tended to his kids because his wife was more addicted than him...) So I do agree some of it was likely not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.

I have finally decided this series is told from Capotes perspective of how he needed to view the swans to validate himself. And his recollections are likely booze and pill induced. So he is their savior or necessary confidant- if it was told from the Swan's point of view it might treat him as court jester at times.

I would be interested in a deeper dive on the Swans. I would really like a truer picture of CZ who seems the most content of the group (outside of her husband being a crap businessman) and the one sister of Babe's who introduced her then husband to the future Brooke Astor to take him off her hands...
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Old 03-14-2024, 02:01 PM
 
Location: USA
9,116 posts, read 6,165,173 times
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I've seen more interesting people in telenovelas.

Did any of these women actually do anything in their lives that would warrant even a Wikipedia entry other than "wife of . . ."?
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Old 03-14-2024, 03:48 PM
Status: "Pickleball-Free American" (set 2 hours ago)
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,458 posts, read 44,061,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767 View Post
I've seen more interesting people in telenovelas.

Did any of these women actually do anything in their lives that would warrant even a Wikipedia entry other than "wife of . . ."?
The most 'serious' Swan was clearly CZ (my favorite), who on her resume could include master gardener, published author and fashion designer (and succeeded at all three). Unlike the others, she was open about the travails in her life and stood by her husband when he faced a financial crisis. She clearly enjoyed her status and wealth, but had a down to earth side to her as well. She never gave in to 'cosmetic procedures', either; into her old age she exuded a weathered, athletic allure that I found so appealing.
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Old 03-17-2024, 04:25 PM
 
Location: In the north country fair
5,010 posts, read 10,687,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpeatie View Post
I've actually found myself reading up on these characters since the show started as I knew of Lee Radziwill and Pamela Harriman from political bios and CZ Guest because of her style impact (she was a muse for major midcentury photographer.)

I think the grand-daughter has rose colored glasses. She was also the granddaughter not one of the children so its possible 60 year old Babe Paley was a different person than 30 or 40 something babe Paley or she was warmer to grandchildren than her children or acquaintances beyond a tight circle.
I am sure, as you stated^^^, that 40 year old and 60 year Babe Paley were different people. However, the series does not present her that way. So, I think that the granddaughter’s ire is justified.

I am sure my grandparents were no saints but I would be pissed if someone created a series that focused only on their faults in order to reel in the viewers and make a buck. It’s muckraking.
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Old 03-18-2024, 08:06 AM
Status: "Pickleball-Free American" (set 2 hours ago)
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,458 posts, read 44,061,014 times
Reputation: 16804
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I am sure, as you stated^^^, that 40 year old and 60 year Babe Paley were different people. However, the series does not present her that way. So, I think that the granddaughter’s ire is justified.

I am sure my grandparents were no saints but I would be pissed if someone created a series that focused only on their faults in order to reel in the viewers and make a buck. It’s muckraking.
I feel the same way. To see someone that you loved portrayed that way in the media would be upsetting to anyone, particularly if they're not there to defend themselves.
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Old 03-24-2024, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Mayberry
36,416 posts, read 16,023,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domergurl View Post
it's on FX on Wednesdays and then on Hulu on Thursdays.

First 2 eps are up.
Thank you!
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Old 03-25-2024, 08:44 AM
 
Location: In the north country fair
5,010 posts, read 10,687,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post
The granddaughter was nine years old when Babe Paley died.
Do nine year olds not have memories?
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Old 03-25-2024, 09:27 AM
 
Location: USA
9,116 posts, read 6,165,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
Do nine year olds not have memories?

Of course they have memories. Probably wonderful memories of being with grandma or mee-maw or nana. But, she was never with "Babe". Babe is not the same person as grandma. Nor should she be.

The granddaughter was probably not privy to the relationships between nana and pop-pop or between nana and Tru.

When grandma showed her granddaughter some of the beautiful jewels pop-pop bought for her, do you think she explained that it was a "guilt" gift because pop-pop cheated on grandma?
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