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I gave up doing criminal law cases years ago in my practice. However, I office share with an attorney who does them and I've noticed patterns that have gotten my attention.
Many people who contact his office for representation either cannot afford or will not pay for a lawyer to represent them. Fees vary a great deal. However, clients could get representation for a Class A misdemeanor (the worst one) for about $1000. A third degree felony would cost them about $2500 (possibility of 0-5 years in prison). A second degree felony would cost them around $5000 (possibility of 1-15 years in prison). An endless number of people contact him and when they learn the cost of these services they never return. In fact, there are so many calls like this that it consumes a considerable portion of secretarial time to respond. Since I share a secretary with him the waste of time concerns me. I would give anything to cut back on the time spent on calls with people who have no intention of paying for his services. BTW, the fees are probably slightly less than the average charged in this area.
Statistics show that those represented by private legal counsel tend to have the best outcome in a criminal case. Those represented by the public defender--and his high caseload--do not do as well.
The fees I have quoted above are considerable, but they are not enormous. I'm hoping for some reasoned responses here rather than just "yes" or "no" answers. However, here are the questions:
1. Is it really unreasonable for all but the truly indigent to be expected to raise $2500 to $5000 for an emergency of this magnitude? Can't families help? Do the vast majority of people really have no emergency source of money they can call on? Is there no one they can borrow from?
2. When people fail to hire private legal counsel and end up with a worse outcome is this really a systemic fault or injustice? Or, is it simply a consequence of poor planning? Remember, the system has provided the accused person with the services of a public defender. Its just that he/she may have inadequate time to do the job as well as it could be done.
3. Families who either cannot or will not help a member who is accused of a crime often behave bizarrely. They will suggest my friend should work for free. Other times, they will take it on themselves to do things they really shouldn't do, like contact the prosecutor and admit their family member committed a crime. Than they ask the prosecutor to "cut him a deal" which he refuses to do. Is this behavior the product of ignorance? Desperation? Or, a situation where they are acting like cheapskates wanting a "freebie"?
Over the years, I've observed his practice and the problem seems to be getting worse (more such inquiries) rather than better.
i am in the prison ministry, so i'll give you my opinion based on my experience:
1. Many of the people that you talk to really can't raise the money. Or at least it is IFFY whether or not they can raise the money. They are looking for a quote, in the back of their minds maybe hoping to find some way to raise the money (that may or may not be realistic).
2. Others may be able to get the money, but conclude that it isnt worth it relative to a public defender. Obviously situations vary considerably; some might be right in their ultimate conclusion, others wrong. But its human nature to choose the path of least resistance.
3. The ugly side of the business- unfortunately there are many that get charged with something ridiculous that there is no evidence of whatsoever. Many of these are naaive and believe the case will be easily dismissed, no attorney needed.
On the civil side, what I've noticed is that many people won't hire a lawyer even if they have a perfectly winnable lawsuit. They'll just say "I don't have the money. Lawyers are for rich people."
I paid a small fee to a lawyer to help me get a security deposit back and I had someone tell me "you're greedy for suing". I found out that my apartment complex never returned security deposits to anyone and I was the first person who had ever sued them.
If I were accused of a crime, I'd pay good money to hire a good lawyer. Even if I had to borrow the money off credit cards, I would cough up five grand to get a good lawyer.
With people who are in severe poverty, perhaps jail looks not so bad to them, because they will get free food and free housing. I don't know. It does seem strange that middle class people wouldn't pay 2500 or 5000 for a lawyer. But many middle class people don't even have $500 in savings, although they might drive a really nice car.
It's also astonishing and sad how many people willingly talk to the police, agree to be interviewed by them, even going voluntarily to the police station to talk without a lawyer. Being informed that they have the right to be questioned with an attorney present, but they waive that right. Then make all kinds of incriminating statements. They're toast by that time. I would never talk to the police without a lawyer but I'm guessing around 95% of other people would.
Last edited by PriscillaVanilla; 08-07-2018 at 10:14 PM..
Because attorneys cannot be trusted. If someone doesn't already have one who they know and trust, they would have no idea what they are hiring. Attorneys can be so bad they make a person's case worse. Might as well trust a public defender as much as any other stranger.
Because attorneys cannot be trusted. If someone doesn't already have one who they know and trust, they would have no idea what they are hiring. Attorneys can be so bad they make a person's case worse. Might as well trust a public defender as much as any other stranger.
So than there is no point in anyone ever hiring an attorney to represent them? Only logical conclusion I can deduce from your post.
I gave up doing criminal law cases years ago in my practice. However, I office share with an attorney who does them and I've noticed patterns that have gotten my attention.
Many people who contact his office for representation either cannot afford or will not pay for a lawyer to represent them. Fees vary a great deal. However, clients could get representation for a Class A misdemeanor (the worst one) for about $1000. A third degree felony would cost them about $2500 (possibility of 0-5 years in prison). A second degree felony would cost them around $5000 (possibility of 1-15 years in prison). An endless number of people contact him and when they learn the cost of these services they never return. In fact, there are so many calls like this that it consumes a considerable portion of secretarial time to respond. Since I share a secretary with him the waste of time concerns me. I would give anything to cut back on the time spent on calls with people who have no intention of paying for his services. BTW, the fees are probably slightly less than the average charged in this area.
Statistics show that those represented by private legal counsel tend to have the best outcome in a criminal case. Those represented by the public defender--and his high caseload--do not do as well.
The fees I have quoted above are considerable, but they are not enormous. I'm hoping for some reasoned responses here rather than just "yes" or "no" answers. However, here are the questions:
1. Is it really unreasonable for all but the truly indigent to be expected to raise $2500 to $5000 for an emergency of this magnitude? Can't families help? Do the vast majority of people really have no emergency source of money they can call on? Is there no one they can borrow from?
2. When people fail to hire private legal counsel and end up with a worse outcome is this really a systemic fault or injustice? Or, is it simply a consequence of poor planning? Remember, the system has provided the accused person with the services of a public defender. Its just that he/she may have inadequate time to do the job as well as it could be done.
3. Families who either cannot or will not help a member who is accused of a crime often behave bizarrely. They will suggest my friend should work for free. Other times, they will take it on themselves to do things they really shouldn't do, like contact the prosecutor and admit their family member committed a crime. Than they ask the prosecutor to "cut him a deal" which he refuses to do. Is this behavior the product of ignorance? Desperation? Or, a situation where they are acting like cheapskates wanting a "freebie"?
Over the years, I've observed his practice and the problem seems to be getting worse (more such inquiries) rather than better.
I don't have an opinion, but I appreciate that you took the time to inform people of this. I think I would pay the cost and get the best representation I could.
Most 'service' industries consider it prudent for a client /consumer to get a quote. Unsure how it's unwise to request.
I do understand the concern in more inquiries then actual accounts.
It's evident though based on the initial fees, justice favors the wealthy. If you wish, have the secretary 'screen' the person by saying we accept cases in which the client makes 80k or has that much in assets. That would skim off some of the less worthy citizens.
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