Texas being excluded from the South (Houston, West: high school, college, oil)

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

In my opinion, the north and south shouldn't have ever shared political space as a single nation in the first place. The value systems have always been completely different. The north has always been more industrial and urban and the south more agrarian and rural. The civil war was inevitable. If Lincoln had let the south go, there would be a whole lot less political dysfunction now. The civil war never fixed the differences and arguably made them worse in some ways.

The Civil War fixed the slavery difference, not a minor result. And the preservation of slavery was the purpose of the rebellion and was so stated by the rebels of the time. Note that the two American armies that did the most to crush the rebellion, The Army of the Tennessee and the Army of the Cumberland, were almost entirely Midwestern. Agrarian states. Rural. Without slavery.

Nope, you didn’t see any non slaveholding agrarian states rebelling, no trouble there.

[TexasHorseLady]

Couldn't look at the map - took forever (and I mean forever) to load and made the page it was on HUGE so I had to scroll way over to move on to the next page. Too bad - sounds interesting.



That being said, in order to say Texas is the South (I say this as a native Texan who has lived in several parts of Texas and who has roots going back pre-Republic), you have to ignore a whole lot of the state and its history and its people and focus just on deep East Texas (I was born and bred in East Texas). Texas is more Southwestern than Southern, but it's really its own region.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by NorthTexasGuy

Texas is just Texas....Few if any states have the diverse history, people and geography of this great state. From the prairies of north Texas, to the pine woods of far east Texas, to the swamps of south east Texas, the coastal plains, the Hill Country of central Texas, the dessert of west Texas, the mountains of Big Bend, the Canyons on the high plains (panhandle), the Rio Grand Valley; it is vast and wonderful.


We love our barbeque (beef) just as much as we love our Tamales. We love our beer just as much as our wine. We say howdy as much as we Hola. We have great energy in oil reserves as well as huge wind farms. There are big beautiful ranches and there are wide and beautiful beaches.


Towns as distinct as El Paso from Beaumont, Armarillo from Padre Island, Fredericksburg from Corpus Christi.


Texas has roots from Spain, Mexico, France, The Republic of Texas, The Confederate States and the good old USA.


Texas is just Texas. I wasn't born here, but I got here as soon as I could.

You forgot Germany. Ever been to the Hill Country? Ever hear of a guy named Lucky Kleinfelter?

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

This is absolutely true, at least as far as white southerners are concerned. This is one of the reasons that East Tennesseans and other appalachians arent considered "real" southerners by other southerners. The whole thing with blacks not being southern is silly. Southern culture was influenced at least as much by blacks as by whites.

The thing non-southerners don't realize is how transformative the civil war was (or war between the states, war of rebellion, war of northern aggression or whatever you want to call it) for the south. To people from elsewhere, it is no more than something you learn about in history. With some in the south, there is still a white hot hatred of the north due to the war's outcome and reconstruction.

In my opinion, the north and south shouldn't have ever shared political space as a single nation in the first place. The value systems have always been completely different. The north has always been more industrial and urban and the south more agrarian and rural. The civil war was inevitable. If Lincoln had let the south go, there would be a whole lot less political dysfunction now. The civil war never fixed the differences and arguably made them worse in some ways.



Most of my extended family are Yankees. As long as they stay in yankeeland, I have no problem with them. But when they start metastasizing to other parts of the country and ruining the local culture, I don't like that.

And culture is what this thread is all about. No one denies that Texas or Florida are geographically southern. I can't take anyone seriously who considers Florida as an entire state to have a southern culture. The notion is ludicrous to me. Outside of pockets in the panhandle, any remnant southern culture exists only for tourism purposes.

Not true. Until the Industrial Revolution hit the US, the North was pretty much all rural and agrarian too. However, the Northern states' citizens were of a different opinion on whether it was moral and justifiable to buy human beings to do the agricultural work.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Not true. Until the Industrial Revolution hit the US, the North was pretty much all rural and agrarian too. However, the Northern states' citizens were of a different opinion on whether it was moral and justifiable to buy human beings to do the agricultural work.

Yeah, the deal is, even if the north was industrialized than the south, the vast, vast majority of people lived in rural areas. On top of that, many northern states used to have slavery as well, they just abolished it much earlier on.

The wealthy southerners wanted to keep their way of life and keep owning slaves. It was economically advantageous for them to do that and gave the an advantage over the little guy.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

Most of my extended family are Yankees. As long as they stay in yankeeland, I have no problem with them. But when they start metastasizing to other parts of the country and ruining the local culture, I don't like that.

Oh well sorry, but this is one country. There is no such thing as "Yankeeland". People are free to move and travel throughout whichever state they choose whether you like it or not.

Frankly, I look forward to the day where your kind of regional narcissism is as dead as the dodo. I won't tolerate other "Yankees" bashing the south for no reason, and I won't tolerate the opposite garbage from people like yourself either.

[NorthTexasGuy]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

You forgot Germany. Ever been to the Hill Country? Ever hear of a guy named Lucky Kleinfelter?

Good point.....but I was referring to the famous "Six Flags of Texas" (hence the name of the theme park that has now removed the actual display of the flags because of the Confederate Flag being controversial but that's another story). The nations or states that at one point claim sovereignty over the land that would become Texas.


Love me Fredericksburg and Boerne though.

[turf3]

One more time:


Texas is not Southern, nor is it Western; it is Texan.


Just as the southwestern areas of France and the northeastern areas of Spain have many cultural similarities, or the eastern side of France and the western portions of Germany, East Texas has many similarities to the Deep South of LA, MS, etc.; and Far West Texas has many similarities to the Southwest of NM, Ariz., etc.


Glad I could clear that up for you.

[War Beagle]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Not true. Until the Industrial Revolution hit the US, the North was pretty much all rural and agrarian too. However, the Northern states' citizens were of a different opinion on whether it was moral and justifiable to buy human beings to do the agricultural work.

No, the differences are substantially more than the slavery issue. Yes the north was more agrarian than it is now, but it was also more industrialized (relatively speaking) than the south. The value systems in both regions have always been different. Compare Alexander Hamilton to Jefferson. Hamilton was a big government New York monetarist compared with the rural, agrarian Jefferson.

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Oh well sorry, but this is one country. There is no such thing as "Yankeeland". People are free to move and travel throughout whichever state they choose whether you like it or not.

Frankly, I look forward to the day where your kind of regional narcissism is as dead as the dodo. I won't tolerate other "Yankees" bashing the south for no reason, and I won't tolerate the opposite garbage from people like yourself either.

We share a passport and citizenship, and that's about it. I'd be hard-pressed to say what fundamental values I share with someone from San Francisco or New York. I don't feel any sort of connection or camaraderie with the people in those places. When I hear about fires in California or something happening in NY, it might as well be Canada or Germany as far as I'm concerned.

This complete and utter lack of shared values is why the political system in this country is FUBAR and is not repairable. The only way a country can exist peacefully is with a social contract based on a shared set of bedrock values. We are nowhere near having that anymore, if we ever did at all.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by War Beagle

\We share a passport and citizenship, and that's about it. I'd be hard-pressed to say what fundamental values I share with someone from San Francisco or New York. I don't feel any sort of connection or camaraderie with the people in those places. When I hear about fires in California or something happening in NY, it might as well be Canada or Germany as far as I'm concerned.

This complete and utter lack of shared values is why the political system in this country is FUBAR and is not repairable. The only way a country can exist peacefully is with a social contract based on a shared set of bedrock values. We are nowhere near having that anymore, if we ever did at all.

That's called people being individuals. You have a very dangerous outlook on humanity. No group of people have ever been monolithic, except for cults. Do you want to join a cult?

Plus I feel as though your lack of common ground with people from other regions is probably on you never really being open to finding out. I bet I could win money on that guess.

I mean, based off of your sympathy for your fellow American...