I just need to complain about teaching licensure in the US (degrees, business)

[MrDee12345]

Hi.

I'm an American living overseas and I may move back to the US in the next 5 or so years. I teach at an international school in Malaysia, but I don't have official certification from any state to teach. I have a master's degree, but it's not in education.

I'm from Massachusetts, but my wife and I are open to moving to any US state that can offer us decent jobs and a good quality of life. I figure that if I make myself eligible in as many states as possible, we'll have a number of choices once the time comes to move.

I decided to make myself eligible for a provisional license in Mass by taking the MTELs. Congrats! I passed.

I also looked around the northeast to see if any other state would accept the MTEL in lieu of whatever test they accept. Vermont said they would take my MTEL results when I emailed them, but it's not not on their website. CT said no. Same with NY (more on NY later).

Most other states require Praxis exams, except for the ones that don't, so I've decided to take those exams in the near future. Of course I noticed that to teach social studies in VT, I need Praxis exam 5081 or 5089, but in RI, I need 5089 or 5086.

Some states require Praxis I, while others seem to think that as a 45 year old man I have my SAT scores lying around the house.

NY and NJ are a **** show. I think I'd need to be there, or find a charter school job, just to complete even their alternative requirements. I looked up CA and it was just as ridiculous as NY and NJ.

ME and NH seem to only be looking for warm bodies - that being said, the coldest place my wife had ever been to before she met me was Melbourne, Australia. ME and NH would be a tough sell.

I'm all for states rights, but this is getting silly.

Feel free to add to my list of complaints.

[Ruth4Truth]

What subjects are you qualified to teach? Math and science and in high demand everywhere. There are teacher shortages everywhere. Take a look at New Mexico. Do you teach English as a Second Language? Any foreign languages? More info needed. I guess since this is just a rant thread, you don't want suggestions on where to look for teaching jobs? Have you considered private schools?

[Oldhag1]

As a military wife, I know all about transferring between states and retaking tests, along with picking up new classes or PD. It is actually way, way, way easier than it used to be. You really only need to worry about carrying certification in one state; for the most part you can easily be hired with an out-of-state certification and get the new state’s certification afterwards.

Last I read every state has a method to allow a one year certification to meet their state specific requirements, if not outright full reciprocity depending on teaching experience. Sometimes the definition of teaching experience matters in terms of recency and/or accreditation of the school. While all states accept public K-12 teaching experience from other states, there are states that will not accept your overseas experience to count as bonafide experience for certification purposes, others you may have to petition.

Although some will waive it based on teaching experience, the majority of states are going to require you take at least one Praxis exam. I notice you have Social Studies. One of those tests is for middle school, that will not transfer to high school in any state but is good for all states that do a separate middle school certification. The only difference is the score required. Some states are pretty low, none are excessively high. High school does have different options, in some states the certification spans 7-12 and in others it’s 9-12, and state test choice seems to align somewhat with.

Bottom line is I would choose one state and just get your certification. There is a large compact of states with reciprocity, I think it’s still the same 39 it was a couple of years ago, so you might want to go with one of those states. The Northeast, by the way, is particularly odious about making transferring certification difficult and having just ridiculous hoops to jump through. States with major military bases, on the other hand, tend to be more transfer friendly as that battle has been fought by DoD on behalf of people like me. With the current teacher shortage there is again a large push to create nationally standardize teaching credentials, hopefully it will happen this time.

[MrDee12345]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

What subjects are you qualified to teach?

I passed my exams in Mass to teach English and History. I currently teach IGCSE Global perspectives, humanities and I spent many years teaching ESL. I've considered getting certified to teach ESL, but we'll see.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Math and science and in high demand everywhere.

Those are my two worst subjects

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

There are teacher shortages everywhere. Take a look at New Mexico.

It's funny. New Mexico might as well be Delaware to me - meaning, it's a state I rarely think about. I think I might look into it. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Do you teach English as a Second Language?

I did for many years. Got kind of bored of doing it which is why I switched to history, but I'd do it again if I necessary.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Any foreign languages? More info needed.

I speak some Malay, but I don't think there are too many Americans looking to learn that language.

I guess since this is just a rant thread, you don't want suggestions on where to look for teaching jobs? [/quote] I always welcome advice. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Have you considered private schools?

Very much so. I'd prefer public, but if I had to work a couple years in a private school til I get things together to work in a public school, then I'd be fine with that.

[tnff]

I get what you're saying. When I first got out of the service, I attempted to go into teaching via the alternate route. Took the Praxis and everything they asked for. Those were easy. The only hurdle, and this was the showstopper, was I had to get hired by a school to be eligible for the alternate route, but no school would hire me since, like you, I didn't have a degree in education. The real issue isn't that the individual states are so different as it is that education is a closed shop.

Perhaps with more schools being desperate now, you may find them more willing to use the alternate route.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by tnff

I get what you're saying. When I first got out of the service, I attempted to go into teaching via the alternate route. Took the Praxis and everything they asked for. Those were easy. The only hurdle, and this was the showstopper, was I had to get hired by a school to be eligible for the alternate route, but no school would hire me since, like you, I didn't have a degree in education. The real issue isn't that the individual states are so different as it is that education is a closed shop.

Perhaps with more schools being desperate now, you may find them more willing to use the alternate route.

School systems hire people without Ed degrees on the alternate track all the time. Now, the caveat is that many are in critical needs areas (Math, Science, SPED, Library/Media, Foreign Language), but those are becoming nearly everything.

We had non-Ed degree holders in every subject when I was teaching, and remember I retired eight years ago now, and had for a decade and half prior to that.

[StealthRabbit]

Teach in a community college, or U, or private K-12. Don't deal with the issues of being a childcare provider. (Have you taught USA kids lately?, or under recent USA education required deliverables?)

A couple coworkers set up a training company for corporations and businesses. That was 20 yrs ago, and they are very rich now. Often they taught culture exchange programs for those of us headed to overseas assignments in places like Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam.

Or... If you're determined to teach kids.... Get certificate necessary for Dept of Defense schools.

Or... Teach in another international school.

[Ruth4Truth]

I was under the impression that private schools tend to be more flexible on degree requirements and whatnot. That may vary by school,but I'd think that your many years of experience would be worth something.

RE: New Mexico: the pay's relatively low,even though two governors have boosted teacher pay. Most if it is rural (avoid Albuquerque), but much of it is charming. ESL could help get you in the door. You could look in the villages surrounding Santa Fe (Santa Fe itself has a high COL, but also has several private schools, FYI), and in the mountain towns, like Ruidoso, Cloudcroft, Los Alamos. The weather is cooler in the high-desert areas. If you end up actually considering NM after scoping out job availability, message me for more info.

Perhaps take a look at WA State, too, where the pay is better. Seattle COL is prohibitive, but look at smaller towns in western WA. ESL is relevant in some of those as well. I have no idea about WA certification req's, though.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

School systems hire people without Ed degrees on the alternate track all the time. Now, the caveat is that many are in critical needs areas (Math, Science, SPED, Library/Media, Foreign Language), but those are becoming nearly everything.

We had non-Ed degree holders in every subject when I was teaching, and remember I retired eight years ago now, and had for a decade and half prior to that.

I'm sure there are some who make it through all the hoops. When I talked to school systems, the answers got fell into these general buckets:

a. We only hire people with education degrees. If you go back to school and complete a degree program, we'll be glad to talk to you.

b. We will hire people with alternate certification. Once you complete the program and obtain an alternate certification, then we'll be glad to talk to you. The catch here -- you could only enter the program if a school was willing to hire you as a provisional and sponsor you into the program. None of the schools I talked to were willing to do that. Catch-22.

c. We don't hire under the alternate certification program because as soon as people get their certification, they move to a better school.

d. We don't agree with the Troops to Teachers program for "reasons." I only heard this a couple of times in "unofficial" discussions but as a veteran, was surprised I heard it at all. It was early 90s so the whole "Thank you for your service" wasn't a thing in a lot of places at the time.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by tnff

I'm sure there are some who make it through all the hoops. When I talked to school systems, the answers got fell into these general buckets:

a. We only hire people with education degrees. If you go back to school and complete a degree program, we'll be glad to talk to you.

b. We will hire people with alternate certification. Once you complete the program and obtain an alternate certification, then we'll be glad to talk to you. The catch here -- you could only enter the program if a school was willing to hire you as a provisional and sponsor you into the program. None of the schools I talked to were willing to do that. Catch-22.

c. We don't hire under the alternate certification program because as soon as people get their certification, they move to a better school.

d. We don't agree with the Troops to Teachers program for "reasons." I only heard this a couple of times in "unofficial" discussions but as a veteran, was surprised I heard it at all. It was early 90s so the whole "Thank you for your service" wasn't a thing in a lot of places at the time.

Ok. The push for alternate certification wasn't there thirty years ago, there was a more or less surplus then. The teaching world has changed since then. The shortages didn't kick in until later in the decade and after 2000.

I looked at going back and getting a General Science degree in the late '70s. I would have had the same hoops to jump through for that.