Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-10-2010, 06:43 PM
 
1,692 posts, read 1,534,105 times
Reputation: 1424

Advertisements

Under Pressure, Educators Tamper With Test Scores - NYTimes.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-10-2010, 07:49 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,701,060 times
Reputation: 2194
I don't know how any of this could surprise anyone. Testing has become the end all of every aspect of teaching these days. I'm very glad my daughter is not part of the fiasco by having to take them. I refuse to have her participate in testing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2010, 08:04 PM
 
Location: USA
3,966 posts, read 10,714,245 times
Reputation: 2228
lol @ teacher cheating on state tests. And this is why my wife was laid off and the 'cheaters' stay teaching, all because they have tenure. Oh brother, stop rewarding the these people folks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,793 posts, read 6,131,484 times
Reputation: 1613
Hmmm I thought teachers only taught because they loved it. Not because of the money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 06:46 AM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,899,100 times
Reputation: 9284
Because NY is doing this... anyone with a NY degree will be a step lower than other applicants to me...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 08:28 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,183,642 times
Reputation: 2678

So let's make it better by tying teacher pay with scores - NOT.

If this is indeed true (and not just "the sky is falling" reporting) then why should it come to such a surprise?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,920 posts, read 4,327,723 times
Reputation: 1300
Its is deplorable. But its the inevitable result when you abolish the normal curve by legislative fiat.

Research has show that with hard work you can raise the test scores of about 90% of the population(excluding the special education kiddos) to 1 standard deviation above the mean or to about the 84th %ile. You cannot raise it above that for the normal population unless the ability of the kid is already at that.

Putting teacher performance on test scores without at the same time making realistic estimates of all childrens' academic potential is folly. Human's abilities to perform in any task vary from very low to very high; everyone has disabilities and cannot perform at the 100% level in everything. My daughter got a 750 on the specific writing test of the GRE's, but I had to pay $900 to have her tutored through high school algebra; my son majored in math and physics, but his writing abilities are completely average(around the 50% level).

Matching test scores to teacher performance can be done, but only if you make allowances for the learning potential of each child in the class based on a number of factors, of which school ability is just one of them.

Any other way will eventually lead to lowered quality. Not only the poor teachers will quit, but many of the high quality ones who are being asked to do things that they know are simply impossible will find other lines of work. This whole pattern will lead to the demise of the entire education structure in the United States. No one can know what the fallout will be, but it won't be good ultimately.

And...... we can look forward to a serious teacher shortage in about 10 years if this keeps up. People don't mind working hard at difficult tasks. People won't work continually at impossible tasks.

Zarathu
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,636,755 times
Reputation: 27720
I think it's because the "carrot/stick" approach is heavy on the stick part.
Schools are punished if they don't improve and money is taken away.
The pressure is on to do well regardless. Cheating, lowering standards fits the bill.

It would be so much better to use the carrot approach.
Give the schools money to operate and reward the improvement rather than punish it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 01:30 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,701,060 times
Reputation: 2194
IMO, the focus should be on educating instead of test results. Scores will rise only when students understand what they are being tested on and about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2010, 01:36 PM
 
1,890 posts, read 3,122,274 times
Reputation: 1427
There SHOULD be objective assessments used to evaluate teachers. BUT, the key is to have COMPREHENSIVE, MULTI-FACETED assessments; not one single multiple-choice only test. Allow kids to demonstrate knowledge in more ways than just MC and have a couple of different tests throughout the year. Another important thing that needs to happen is have the testing agency-I guess its ETS for everybody, right?-be the ones to administer the freaking test(s). It makes no sense for teachers and school administrators placed in the position of administering some other agencies test. If the schools themselves are not the ones administering the tests, there is no chance for them to be tempted to fudge answers or results. I, for one, would be ECSTATIC if I no longer had to administer ETS tests on behalf of ETS.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top