STL city falls below 300k in new census estimate... (St. Louis: low crime, neighborhoods)

[SteelCityRising]

We vacationed in St. Louis in 2019 and had a wonderful time. Being a middle-class white gay couple that originally hailed from rural areas we stayed south of Delmar because we were told all of North City was "too dangerous".

We stayed at an AirBNB in Benton Park. Fantastic. We explored Soulard, Central West End, Lafeyette Square, Tower Grove Park, South Grand, and Forest Park. We did enjoy the Arch and surroundings but otherwise thought Downtown St. Louis was a joke overall for anchoring such a large metro area. I was excited to see Laclede's Landing until we saw it was only like eight buildings?

Just because a city is declining in population doesn't mean it is undesirable. Pittsburgh is also declining in population, and many people love our city. Both of our cities truly have to rein in urban sprawl. Places like Wentzville, for example, hurt the vitality of St. Louis. I also think the city should encourage more redevelopment radiating northwards from Delmar and gradually creep it's way deeper into the North Side.

[BostonJad]

I visited STL for the first time last weekend and failed to see why it gets the bad reputation that it does. I essentially explored neighborhoods like the Grove, Central West End, Del Mar, Lafayette Park, Soulard, the Hills, Cherokee St, Bevo , Tower Grove and didn't experience the boarded up and blight that you'd typically see in cities like Detroit, Baltimore and Philly.
Maybe that was something North of Del Mar? people say thats the part of STL you want to avoid.
I see the city has tons of potential from many eclectic neighborhoods and eateries you can find.

[flynavyj]

The city definitely has tons of potential. As you stated - you didn’t see the boarded up, vacant buildings, because many of the boarded up vacant buildings are in other parts of the city than those you visited. Glad you enjoyed your stay in St. Louis, sounds like you saw some of the awesome areas we have to celebrate.

[SunGrins]

St. Louis is a gem as it stands today with a small city population and an infrastructure for a million. I lived there when the population was over 800 k, left in 1976, visit family there occasionally, and went back recently and fell in love with the place all over again.

Are there problems and things that need attention? Yes, and soon. I made a point to visit some old familiar neighborhoods near Page Avenue and Kingshighway and even went up to see what became of Kinloch, not all that far from where I used to live before I moved away. The city housing stock is largely intact in most places. My old house in the county is boarded up and has a hole in the roof and should be pulled down (there goes the museum of my life). Brick rustlers have been busy mining the north side bricks for future McMansions elsewhere. Kinloch, of course is gone, not even a ghost town.

The problem with the metro region and planned growth is the municipality turf battles and the old grudges that can't be set aside. It was that way in the 1970s and has not seemed to change since then. Any city would be happy to have what the City of St. Louis has.

[atler8]

Originally Posted by BostonJad

I visited STL for the first time last weekend and failed to see why it gets the bad reputation that it does. I essentially explored neighborhoods like the Grove, Central West End, Del Mar, Lafayette Park, Soulard, the Hills, Cherokee St, Bevo , Tower Grove and didn't experience the boarded up and blight that you'd typically see in cities like Detroit, Baltimore and Philly.
Maybe that was something North of Del Mar? people say thats the part of STL you want to avoid.
I see the city has tons of potential from many eclectic neighborhoods and eateries you can find.

I have not been in St. Louis proper on foot or by car for many years but I have more recently done "walking" tours of numerous neighborhoods via using the online tool called "Google Maps".
Via that method, I have indeed found MUCH of the decay you said you did not find and it seems to be most concentrated on the north side.

The majority of what I saw in that region of the city looked awful and absolutely reminded me of the vast, similarly decayed or emptied out areas of blight that comprise much of Detroit.

For what it's worth and in a related note, I have told people for years that my experiences of seeing East St. Louis years ago led me to believe that at that time and on a per capita basis, it may have been the most blighted & emptied out small city I'd ever seen.

As goes Google Maps, using that tool, anyone with online capacity can "walk" and explore many places all around the globe, fyi...

[ScoPro]

Good lordy!
When I lived at Jefferson Barracks 1954-57, the city population was about 800,000 IIRC.
All my cousins moved out before the end of the last century.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by atler8

I have not been in St. Louis proper on foot or by car for many years but I have more recently done "walking" tours of numerous neighborhoods via using the online tool called "Google Maps".
Via that method, I have indeed found MUCH of the decay you said you did not find and it seems to be most concentrated on the north side.

The majority of what I saw in that region of the city looked awful and absolutely reminded me of the vast, similarly decayed or emptied out areas of blight that comprise much of Detroit.

For what it's worth and in a related note, I have told people for years that my experiences of seeing East St. Louis years ago led me to believe that at that time and on a per capita basis, it may have been the most blighted & emptied out small city I'd ever seen.

As goes Google Maps, using that tool, anyone with online capacity can "walk" and explore many places all around the globe, fyi...

If you look for run down areas, you will find it. Especially if you have no interest in living, doing business or taking advantage of some of the amenities.

[myuen2]

Originally Posted by 1greatcity

Construction of new housing in St. Louis’ central corridor has been happening at an astounding rate; thus, areas like The Grove and Botanical Heights have been adding population. The south side has more or less held it’s own. It’s the city’s north side that continues to bleed population. All that growth in the central corridor hasn’t been enough to offset the losses on the north side. It should be obvious that the big focus should be on finding ways to make north side living attractive again. Until then, the city cannot grow.

Why are folks leaving the north side?

[myuen2]

Originally Posted by SunGrins

St. Louis is a gem as it stands today with a small city population and an infrastructure for a million. I lived there when the population was over 800 k, left in 1976, visit family there occasionally, and went back recently and fell in love with the place all over again.

Are there problems and things that need attention? Yes, and soon. I made a point to visit some old familiar neighborhoods near Page Avenue and Kingshighway and even went up to see what became of Kinloch, not all that far from where I used to live before I moved away. The city housing stock is largely intact in most places. My old house in the county is boarded up and has a hole in the roof and should be pulled down (there goes the museum of my life). Brick rustlers have been busy mining the north side bricks for future McMansions elsewhere. Kinloch, of course is gone, not even a ghost town.

The problem with the metro region and planned growth is the municipality turf battles and the old grudges that can't be set aside. It was that way in the 1970s and has not seemed to change since then. Any city would be happy to have what the City of St. Louis has.

Yours is the only positive post about St. Louis. Since I am contemplating moving there, I would like to see its good side. What is it about the city that floats your boat? Talking about boat, it reminds me about flooding issues. Did you experience any rising river level problems when you were living there?

[1greatcity]

Originally Posted by myuen2

Why are folks leaving the north side?

People have been leaving the north side for decades. Why? Poverty, high crime, lack of jobs and other opportunities, mostly low investment in new construction, and the lack of basic amenities like medical facilities and retail. That’s not to say there aren’t respectable areas on the north side— there are. And there are struggling areas on the south side as well. But the north side has definitely suffered the most by far.