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More proposals for trash fees that might be as high as 25 a month. Some say it's free but it comes out of the general fund which means we pay for it. In a typical Union slant it's always compared to other Cities, never the private sector. If we must do this trash fee thing I want it outsourced. We shouldn't be on the hook for pensions and large salaries on top of what's already being shelled out per home owner.
For 25 dollars I could put all of my trash in bags and have to haul to the dump maybe once every 3 months!
How much does the City collect on the recycled material in the blue bins?
Last, we are in a recession and the last thing any homeowner needs to feel is the pain of yet another tax. I'd rather see Sanders enforce work furloughs and other creative cuts in tough years to balance the budget. No one gets canned and it saves money where and when it's needed.
In most places it is the private sector that collects trash with such companies as Waste Management. Have you ever lived outside of San Diego in a city that charges for trash collection? If you have you would know how NORMAL it is to charge for trash collection and have it hauled away by a private company. I honestly think its natives who have never lived outside the CITY of San Diego than just don't get this.
This isn't a tax, it's a user fee everyone else in the county and every other large city in CA pays for. San Diegan's are just cheap and expect a free lunch, we pay far less in taxes and fees than pretty much every other CA city. That fact that our trash collection is paid for out of the general fund is so backwards and ridiculous, and seriously what makes us so special, besides being incredibly cheap, that we shouldn't have to pay for trash? The only reason we don't pay is b/c of some stupid, out of date law from 1919. Do you really think it makes any sense to keep a law from horse and buggy days when SD used to sell its trash to hog farmers??
If San Diego charged $10/month for trash collection, which is about HALF the rate as most other cities, it completely covers the current cost to collect trash and then some.
If you would rather not pay for trash collection and take your trash to the dump yourself then go ahead, no one is stopping you from doing that.
San Diego has been cutting public services for years and the city is falling apart, the roads are some of the worst in the entire country and our infrastructure overall is just pathetic.
"The San Diego County Taxpayers Association is studying the issue of trash fees and will weigh in on it shortly, said Lani Lutar, president and CEO. Historically, the association has been in favor of cost recovery, meaning people ought to pay for what they get."
The first time I've read 10 dollars is your post. Everything else is 2.5 times that.
If when they made the trash arrangement they had set aside a % of existing general fund money into a trash dept service then it would not even be brought up. It would simply be a portion set aside that isn't going into the pension fu.....errrr I mean general fund.
How many times have we been burned by the waste water/water use depts? How many times have those "fees" gone for some other project including the ...errr general fund?
In most places it is the private sector that collects trash with such companies as Waste Management. Have you ever lived outside of San Diego in a city that charges for trash collection? If you have you would know how NORMAL it is to charge for trash collection and have it hauled away by a private company. I honestly think its natives who have never lived outside the CITY of San Diego than just don't get this.
This isn't a tax, it's a user fee everyone else in the county and every other large city in CA pays for. San Diegan's are just cheap and expect a free lunch, we pay far less in taxes and fees than pretty much every other CA city. That fact that our trash collection is paid for out of the general fund is so backwards and ridiculous, and seriously what makes us so special, besides being incredibly cheap, that we shouldn't have to pay for trash? The only reason we don't pay is b/c of some stupid, out of date law from 1919. Do you really think it makes any sense to keep a law from horse and buggy days when SD used to sell its trash to hog farmers??
If San Diego charged $10/month for trash collection, which is about HALF the rate as most other cities, it completely covers the current cost to collect trash and then some.
If you would rather not pay for trash collection and take your trash to the dump yourself then go ahead, no one is stopping you from doing that.
San Diego has been cutting public services for years and the city is falling apart, the roads are some of the worst in the entire country and our infrastructure overall is just pathetic.
"The San Diego County Taxpayers Association is studying the issue of trash fees and will weigh in on it shortly, said Lani Lutar, president and CEO. Historically, the association has been in favor of cost recovery, meaning people ought to pay for what they get."
The reality is the city has been run into the ground by the Republican good old boy network who has had a near monopoly on power for as far back as I remember (I'm in my 30's and am a native San Diegan). The mentality of "we won't ever pay taxes or fees" which so many locals have means libraries are being closed despite record attendance, schools are being declared unsafe by the fire marshall because repairs have been deferred for decades, and the roads are simply a mess because the city doesn't have the cash to fill pot holes. Don't even get me started about how we have half the police and firefighters per capita of most of the rest of the big cities in the country.
I don't like paying taxes any more then the next man but I make a good living and honestly I'd be willing to pay more if it meant basic services could actually be maintained instead of whithering slowly away. The fact is our property tax rate is 40% lower then the average of America's largest 25 cities so we're actually under taxed compared to the average plus we don't even pay fees for garbage collection. It's time for us to stop living in our plastic bubble and admit that if you want services then you have to pay for them.
The reality is the city has been run into the ground by the Republican good old boy network who has had a near monopoly on power for as far back as I remember (I'm in my 30's and am a native San Diegan). The mentality of "we won't ever pay taxes or fees" which so many locals have means libraries are being closed despite record attendance, schools are being declared unsafe by the fire marshall because repairs have been deferred for decades, and the roads are simply a mess because the city doesn't have the cash to fill pot holes. Don't even get me started about how we have half the police and firefighters per capita of most of the rest of the big cities in the country.
I don't like paying taxes any more then the next man but I make a good living and honestly I'd be willing to pay more if it meant basic services could actually be maintained instead of whithering slowly away. The fact is our property tax rate is 40% lower then the average of America's largest 25 cities so we're actually under taxed compared to the average plus we don't even pay fees for garbage collection. It's time for us to stop living in our plastic bubble and admit that if you want services then you have to pay for them.
Well, when the average cost of living is high and the average household income is low raising taxes, especially in a recession, is going to be a hard sell.
As I've stated, in good times all of those projects and what not are fine, in lean times big govt needs to shrink just like private sector.
You might have a point that the median household income isn't very high ($62k per year in gross terms and $55k per year in inflation adjusted terms for cost of living) however the average household income is right around $79k a year which is much higher then the national average. Yes, a few rich areas do skew the average that's why I also quoted median numbers and both the median and the average are much higher then the national average even adjusting for cost of living. That said San Diego most certainly is not a "big government town" and I work a lot with regulators and city officials in my line of work so I do have some idea of what I am talking about. When it comes to building codes, regulations on developers, pollution laws (our regional water quality control board is the most lax in the state) and most other things dealing with local governance San Diego tends to take the who cares approach. You can basically say this is all the result of the right wing small government mentality which dominates our region politically.
An excellent example of this short sightedness is the city's sewer system because we lead the state in the number and volume of sewage spills. Most of the main components of our system (pumps, valves, switches, and what not) where originally installed in the 1960's when the city was 1/3 of it's current size so they're not designed to handle the flow rate which is three times larger then originally intended. As a result the pumps routinely can't keep up with flow, pressure builds up, and the release valves automatically open to prevent the pipes from bursting. This means raw sewage ends up in our bay, in our rivers, and in the ocean. That's not good for a city who's economy is largely based on tourism but even worse are the fines the state and federal regulators assess against the city for being out of compliance with water quality laws.
The fines have been so big and so regular for so long that we've literally paid more in fines then it would have cost us to just upgrade the sewer system to begin with! But this is San Diego and nobody wanted to pay for it so now we're still out the money but our system hasn't been upgraded. It's very frustrating in it's short sightedness.
More proposals for trash fees that might be as high as 25 a month. Some say it's free but it comes out of the general fund which means we pay for it. In a typical Union slant it's always compared to other Cities, never the private sector. If we must do this trash fee thing I want it outsourced.
BTW more often then not outsourcing actually drives up costs. Why? Because politicians are worried about service disruptions and other problems if they keep switching companies (if there is even another company willing to create a duplicate system which normally isn't the case) and the company knows it has a monopoly. End result they end up having a monopoly and price their fees accordingly. I say this as someone who works for a company that actually does a lot of outsourcing/contracting for the government (mostly Federal but the principle is the same).
Yes, government services should have their costs constantly compared to what it would cost a private contractor just to make sure things don't get to far out of line but at the end of the day there just aren't that many savings to be made there. It's mostly just a talking point some people use even though in actuality those supposed savings never pan out; further more outsourcing tends to encourage graft and corruption as politicians steer contracts to friends & campaign donors. I'm just not seeing an upside to this practice in most cases.
I mean really think about this in detail. If you outsource it then does the company you outsource to have to buy all new trash trucks or do they buy the existing trash trucks (which we spent hundreds of millions on) from us? If they buy their own then we still have to pay for the ones the city already purchased so then we're paying for two. If they buy the existing ones then they'll get them for pennies on the dollar because they're used and we're still stuck repaying most of the loans for the original purchase price. Either way we're now paying more. What if we decide the savings the company promised didn't materialize (because they know they have a monopoly and price accordingly) can we switch to another company? Not likely since that company now owns all of our trash trucks and will simply refuse to sell them meaning the new company would have to buy all new ones driving up their costs and start up capital requirements so that most will just say it isn't worth it. So that company defacto still doesn't face any competition and now we've just created yet another entrenched special interest with monopoly power over the citizens. Outsourcing just never delivers the savings it promises.
BTW more often then not outsourcing actually drives up costs. Why? Because politicians are worried about service disruptions and other problems if they keep switching companies (if there is even another company willing to create a duplicate system which normally isn't the case) and the company knows it has a monopoly. End result they end up having a monopoly and price their fees accordingly. I say this as someone who works for a company that actually does a lot of outsourcing/contracting for the government (mostly Federal but the principle is the same).
Yes, government services should have their costs constantly compared to what it would cost a private contractor just to make sure things don't get to far out of line but at the end of the day there just aren't that many savings to be made there. It's mostly just a talking point some people use even though in actuality those supposed savings never pan out; further more outsourcing tends to encourage graft and corruption as politicians steer contracts to friends & campaign donors. I'm just not seeing an upside to this practice in most cases.
I mean really think about this in detail. If you outsource it then does the company you outsource to have to buy all new trash trucks or do they buy the existing trash trucks (which we spent hundreds of millions on) from us? If they buy their own then we still have to pay for the ones the city already purchased so then we're paying for two. If they buy the existing ones then they'll get them for pennies on the dollar because they're used and we're still stuck repaying most of the loans for the original purchase price. Either way we're now paying more. What if we decide the savings the company promised didn't materialize (because they know they have a monopoly and price accordingly) can we switch to another company? Not likely since that company now owns all of our trash trucks and will simply refuse to sell them meaning the new company would have to buy all new ones driving up their costs and start up capital requirements so that most will just say it isn't worth it. So that company defacto still doesn't face any competition and now we've just created yet another entrenched special interest with monopoly power over the citizens. Outsourcing just never delivers the savings it promises.
My Company outsourced a large part of work. Not only is the Contractor embarrassing the in house work with performance we also don't have to pay outlandish pensions and benefits. I've seen first hand what outsourcing can do as I help create the reports and dissect the data. I see no reason why that wouldn't be the same for govt workers.
Try reading that post as it explains why contracting out government services have almost always resulted in worse services and higher prices.
Quote:
The Government simply lacks sufficient qualified acquisition, contract management, and quality control personnel to handle the outsourcing burden. Because the Government is ill-positioned to successfully out-source in a manner that generates higher quality services, lower prices, greater efficiency, or, ultimately, better government, an aggressive outsourcing policy will further expose long-standing problems in service contracting, including poor planning, inadequately defined requirements, insufficient price evaluation, and lax oversight of contractor performance.
The government most often doesn't have the resources to provide oversight, to properly define requirements, do enough comparison shopping, and provide the day to day over sight of what these private companies are doing with public money and so the taxpayer normally get soaked.
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