Any particular reason why the SA Central Market is the worst out of all of them? (Houston: real estate, buying)

[ged_782]

Reading this thread, I was curious how many Central Markets are there in total?

I counted ten. One in San Antonio (Alamo Heights), one in Houston, two in Austin. The remaining six are all in the DFW metroplex.

[WVNomad]

Originally Posted by ZenyattaFrittata

I share that opinion. People treat HEB as some sort of saintly business, especially in San Antonio. They DO do some really excellent things for communities sometimes, but I think their hostility toward competition is an overall negative for the SA area. I'm not sure who to blame more, HEB or the people of SA for being so content with mediocrity.

I don’t understand this. I’m no HEB fan (I think they are a fine grocery store, but not much different or any better than many others), but I certainly don’t expect HEB to be warm towards or welcome their business rivals. It’s their job to do everything they can legally to decimate their competition….that’s what any well run business should do. If they violate the law to prevent legitimate competition, that would be a problem. But if they can capitalize on their goodwill in the community, and provide a product/service that people find attractive, than they should be commended for that.

[ZenyattaFrittata]

Originally Posted by WVNomad

I don’t understand this. I’m no HEB fan (I think they are a fine grocery store, but not much different or any better than many others), but I certainly don’t expect HEB to be warm towards or welcome their business rivals. It’s their job to do everything they can legally to decimate their competition….that’s what any well run business should do. If they violate the law to prevent legitimate competition, that would be a problem. But if they can capitalize on their goodwill in the community, and provide a product/service that people find attractive, than they should be commended for that.

My main gripe with it is that it leads to much higher prices. When I go home to DFW, I shop at HEB and consistently save $10-20 per shopping trip buying the same items I buy in SA. It's most noticeable with produce and meat prices. As I mentioned earlier, I assume this is because of competition. Kroger has fantastic sales regularly and to keep up and compete with them in DFW, HEB will have to price their items lower. I've read that HEB "price-warred" other grocers out of the market in SA, and once they were the only option left, that's when the prices were raised. I'm genuinely concerned about this happening in Dallas. People are elated to have HEB up there now, but I don't think they realize how much it would suck for them to be the only option.

HEB also has a habit of removing name brand items in favor of their store brand. I fully believe that their generic store brands are the best out of any other grocery store, BUT I still have a problem with taking away the consumer's choice to pick the name brand if they want. There's no reason someone should have to go to Walmart or Target to buy a name brand item when HEB is fully capable of stocking it, but they choose not to so people will buy THEIR brand.

Again, I realize HEB is just behaving like a business, but until I moved to SA I wasn't aware of how cutthroat they were. Coming from a metroplex with a plethora of choices and a population that embraces having those choices, it's incredibly jarring to now live in a place where people are SO resistant to change and seem to not even care about anything beyond the little bubble they were raised in. They don't know what they're missing and they couldn't care less.

Originally Posted by ged_782

Reading this thread, I was curious how many Central Markets are there in total?

I counted ten. One in San Antonio (Alamo Heights), one in Houston, two in Austin. The remaining six are all in the DFW metroplex.

That's right. Houston is the only other city with just one location, but it's Houston. There are endless places to shop and get the types of things found at CM (just pointing that out, not directing it at you or anything).

[Seguinite]

I think when HEB started incorporating 'Central Market' type sections in the newer 'superstores', a lot of folks didn't find it necessary to drive downtown any longer.

[WVNomad]

Originally Posted by ZenyattaFrittata

My main gripe with it is that it leads to much higher prices. When I go home to DFW, I shop at HEB and consistently save $10-20 per shopping trip buying the same items I buy in SA. It's most noticeable with produce and meat prices. As I mentioned earlier, I assume this is because of competition. Kroger has fantastic sales regularly and to keep up and compete with them in DFW, HEB will have to price their items lower. I've read that HEB "price-warred" other grocers out of the market in SA, and once they were the only option left, that's when the prices were raised. I'm genuinely concerned about this happening in Dallas. People are elated to have HEB up there now, but I don't think they realize how much it would suck for them to be the only option.

HEB also has a habit of removing name brand items in favor of their store brand. I fully believe that their generic store brands are the best out of any other grocery store, BUT I still have a problem with taking away the consumer's choice to pick the name brand if they want. There's no reason someone should have to go to Walmart or Target to buy a name brand item when HEB is fully capable of stocking it, but they choose not to so people will buy THEIR brand.

Again, I realize HEB is just behaving like a business, but until I moved to SA I wasn't aware of how cutthroat they were. Coming from a metroplex with a plethora of choices and a population that embraces having those choices, it's incredibly jarring to now live in a place where people are SO resistant to change and seem to not even care about anything beyond the little bubble they were raised in. They don't know what they're missing and they couldn't care less.

Fair enough. I think your perspective isn’t unreasonable.

[RadiantBaby]

I've never blamed HEB for being hypercompetitive. Hell, I admire them for it.

Who I blame are the people of SA who seem content with 'as-is' and always have been.

It's how HEB has maintained their grip. They sell an image that this city slurps up without question.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by ZenyattaFrittata

My main gripe with it is that it leads to much higher prices. When I go home to DFW, I shop at HEB and consistently save $10-20 per shopping trip buying the same items I buy in SA. It's most noticeable with produce and meat prices. As I mentioned earlier, I assume this is because of competition. Kroger has fantastic sales regularly and to keep up and compete with them in DFW, HEB will have to price their items lower. I've read that HEB "price-warred" other grocers out of the market in SA, and once they were the only option left, that's when the prices were raised. I'm genuinely concerned about this happening in Dallas. People are elated to have HEB up there now, but I don't think they realize how much it would suck for them to be the only option.

HEB also has a habit of removing name brand items in favor of their store brand. I fully believe that their generic store brands are the best out of any other grocery store, BUT I still have a problem with taking away the consumer's choice to pick the name brand if they want. There's no reason someone should have to go to Walmart or Target to buy a name brand item when HEB is fully capable of stocking it, but they choose not to so people will buy THEIR brand.

Again, I realize HEB is just behaving like a business, but until I moved to SA I wasn't aware of how cutthroat they were. Coming from a metroplex with a plethora of choices and a population that embraces having those choices, it's incredibly jarring to now live in a place where people are SO resistant to change and seem to not even care about anything beyond the little bubble they were raised in. They don't know what they're missing and they couldn't care less.



That's right. Houston is the only other city with just one location, but it's Houston. There are endless places to shop and get the types of things found at CM (just pointing that out, not directing it at you or anything).

Well Houston is by far the wealthiest city in Texas. Maybe CM is beneath them?

In Texas, Houston has the most in all three categories: 90,900 millionaires, 258 centi-millionaires, and 18 billionaires. Dallas has 68,600 millionaires, 125 centi-millionaires and 15 billionaires; Austin has 32,700 millionaires, 92 centi-millionaires and 10 billionaires.Apr 6, 2024

https://am1280thepatriot.com/news/na...20billionaires.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by ZenyattaFrittata

Thanks for the link, I missed this announcement. It's long overdue by the looks of the store and definitely the parking lot.




I share that opinion. People treat HEB as some sort of saintly business, especially in San Antonio. They DO do some really excellent things for communities sometimes, but I think their hostility toward competition is an overall negative for the SA area. I'm not sure who to blame more, HEB or the people of SA for being so content with mediocrity.

Also, I can't help but remember that after their only store in Galveston (an economically disadvantaged area) was damaged by hurricane Ike in 2008, they completely left Galveston and never came back, leaving the island with only two true grocery stores. However, after a Central Market in Dallas (Preston Hollow to be exact, an extremely affluent area) was damaged by a tornado in 2019, they started rebuilding almost immediately. Interesting.




Not sure, that ship has probably sailed. I was just surprised that there wasn't already more than one store. How many high end HEBs, or other grocery store companies, did SA have in the 90s? I did a quick Google search of the HEBs that people often refer to as the "higher end" locations and they were all built fairly recently (Alon - 2008; Bandera/1604 - 2016, Lemon Creek - last month, not even in San Antonio).

I guess HEB realized from the beginning that SA isn't exactly a market that could support high end shopping?

In the 90s De Zavala was the edge of the city. It was also upscale when first built.

[ged_782]

Originally Posted by ZenyattaFrittata

How many high end HEBs, or other grocery store companies, did SA have in the 90s?

In the 1990s, the other grocery chains in San Antonio would have been Kroger (pulled out in 1993), Albertsons (pulled out in the early 2000s), and Handy-Andy (closed the last remaining stores sometime in the 2000s, once HEB's neck-and-neck rival in the San Antonio market).

Skaggs-Albertsons entry into the San Antonio market in the 1970s, marked the first time the city had a major national grocery chain.

[hijakeroo123]

Originally Posted by Seguinite

I think when HEB started incorporating 'Central Market' type sections in the newer 'superstores', a lot of folks didn't find it necessary to drive downtown any longer.

You hit the nail on the head with why HEB has not built more Central Markets in San Antonio (and Houston as well). In both cities, the growth of the Central Market concept largely coincided with the development of larger and higher-end HEB locations in both markets. In San Antonio, most of these stores were replacements for smaller locations which were at least 20-30 years old, while in Houston, many stores during this period were replacement for Pantry Foods boxes which were significantly undersized and underwhelming when compared to the competition from Kroger/Randalls. At the time, the driving forces behind the CM concept were their natural/organic selections and prepared foods counters (called "Cafe on the Run" at the time). As HEB developed higher-end stores starting in the 2000's, these CM store components were incorporated into the HEB "____" Market stores (such as the aforementioned Alon Market), reducing the potential market for full fledged Central Market stores within the vicinity. This same trend also took place in Austin, and the only real reason that two Central Markets were opened there is due to direct competition from homegrown Whole Foods.

Meanwhile, in DFW, HEB used Central Market as their initial growth vehicle into the market. With that being said, they have still had to be extremely selective with locations as the Central Market format requires a fairly targeted demographic base to be profitable. For the most part, stores need to be located in wealthy areas, and also cannot be in areas which the majority of the surrounding population will tend to prefer various ethnic/regional grocers (this is big factor in the Collin County suburbs, many of which have a large Indian and/or East Asian population).