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From what I am reading it seems a lot of it depends on whether the woman was okay with the housewife role or not. I think one bad thing is how women are expected to work crazy in the rat race. I hate having to work and do that kind of stuff, answering to a horrible boss, getting tens of thousands in student debt, horrible coworkers, dealing with all the crap in the working world. I'll take cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids and husband over any of that!
That's not quite it. There are lots of women who happily play the role of stay at home mother and housewife today, but it's by choice and usually a choice that both the husband and wife make together since living on his income alone also places a heavier burden on him. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a stay at home parent - many people would love to have the choice to have one parent, be it mom or dad, stay at home and raise the kids and take care of the house.
What has changed is that women didn't used to have the option and as others have said so well, being totally dependent on a husband without having rights and choices of her own.
I was 29 when my first husband passed away in 1986. I got very frustrated that I was repeatedly turned down for loans because I was a single woman. One was for a $200 overdraft protection on my checking account. I had a good job and no bad credit history. Even as late as the 80's, women were still discriminated against at work and in the financial sector. You can't really know what not having equality is unless you have experienced it.
So today's feminist organizations fully support women who do not want to work but instead want to be mothers and wives?
Please list the plethora of feminist women's organizations that has outreach, education and marches for housewives and mothers and pregnant women who choose not to work, stay married and keep their babies.
++crickets++
Yes, we DO know how that goes. /eyeroll/ Evidence is a b00ch ain't it.
Good post! 1996 is awfully late for that type of discrimination to be happening. By then, it was common for married women with good careers/jobs to take a short maternity leave, and be back at their jobs. Not to mention the women who chose not to have kids, plus the women who remain single. And then, there are the women who at some point divorce, and really need the pay raises, to support any kids they may have. The one-size-fits-all life trajectory assumption leaves a lot of people out, and short of the earning power they need. Denying women promotions or raised for which they're qualified also shorts them for their retirement years.
The problem is that engineering was, and still is to a lesser degree, a male-dominated field. I have seen it change, but it has taken longer than in some other professions.
There is no wage gap today. That study has been debunked a thousand times over. It took ALL jobs at ALL salaries at ALL education levels at FT, PT, etc. And then did an average.
So if you agree that a FT CEO of a Fortune 500 company should get paid exactly same as a PT asst at a drycleaner's, than yes there is a wage gap.
If you think that people with comparable education, same years experiences, same hours worked weekly, and same number of years worked should be paid the same, which is what happens in reality, there is NO WAGE GAP.
HR has salary ranges for jobs. They can't arbitrarily offer a women less money below salary range just because.
Educate yourself. There is no wage gap.
So the wage gap does not exist?
I am confused then as to the purpose of the UK government requesting all employers with more than than 250 employees to declare their wage disparity by April 4th, 2018.
Clearly they don't have enough to do in Parliament these days, apart from Brexit, but investigate" non existent" issues.
The BBC currently has the wage disparity spotlight upon them.
Wage disparity may not exist in every single wage structure but historically and culturally many women have been unable to climb the corporate ladder in the same numbers as men so in effect, demonstrable disparity exists.
Your statement that the wage gap does not exist all shows woeful ignorance and your inference that your uninformed opinion is the "educated" one is arrogant.
Perhaps you are also a member of the flat earth society.
The problem is that engineering was, and still is to a lesser degree, a male-dominated field. I have seen it change, but it has taken longer than in some other professions.
A friend's daughter works in Silicon Valley as a programmer and can tell tales about the current problems. She was actually involved in a sexual harassment suit while she was working for a start-up which was drawn out and ugly and made her decide working in the start-up field was not worth the problems, even though the potential rewards were much higher.
Back then, there weren't the antidepressants we have today. But there was valium. A surprising number of women were on some form of tranquilizers, or other mood-managing prescriptions. Wasn't that studied and documented, after Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" came out, exposing that?
Yes, Valium was very popular, and as the poster stated, was what the Title "Mother's Little Helper" referred to in the Rolling Stones 1965 song.
Back then, there weren't the antidepressants we have today. But there was valium. A surprising number of women were on some form of tranquilizers, or other mood-managing prescriptions. Wasn't that studied and documented, after Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" came out, exposing that?
Not to mention The Rolling Stones' "Mother's Little Helper".
My mother was given Valium. She had four kids by 30 and was very depressed at that point in her life. (Unfortunately, I was child No. 4 and was somewhat affected by her mental state in my early life.) She went to the doctor and told her she was having a hard time keeping up with having a disabled husband, four kids, the housework, etc., and some days she felt as though she couldn't even get out of bed and couldn't stop crying. The doctor gave her a prescription for Valium. After a few days she flushed them down the toilet because it just made things worse.
There is no wage gap today. That study has been debunked a thousand times over. It took ALL jobs at ALL salaries at ALL education levels at FT, PT, etc. And then did an average.
So if you agree that a FT CEO of a Fortune 500 company should get paid exactly same as a PT asst at a drycleaner's, than yes there is a wage gap.
If you think that people with comparable education, same years experiences, same hours worked weekly, and same number of years worked should be paid the same, which is what happens in reality, there is NO WAGE GAP.
HR has salary ranges for jobs. They can't arbitrarily offer a women less money below salary range just because.
Educate yourself. There is no wage gap.
YOU need to educate yourself. There have been many sophisticated studies that adjust for ethnicity, education, experience, and job type. Despite holding all those things equal, there is still a sizable gender gap, complete with links to the original research if you REALLY want to educate yourself.
The gender wage gap described above and referred to in this primer has the virtue of being clear and simple. It provides a good overview of what is going on with typical women’s earnings relative to men’s. But it does not tell us what the wage gap is between men and women doing similar work, and whether the size of the gap derives in part from differences in education levels, experience levels, and other characteristics of working men and women. To round out our understanding of the disparity between men’s and women’s pay, we also consider “adjusted” measures of the gender wage gap—with the caveat that the adjusted measures may understate the wage disparities.
Adjusted wage gap estimates control for characteristics such as race and ethnicity, level of education, potential work experience, and geographic division. These estimate are made using average wages rather than median because it requires standard regression techniques. Again, using the Current Population Survey data from the CPS Outgoing Rotation Group, but making these adjustments, we find that the wage gap grows, with women on average paid 21.7 percent less than men. The unadjusted penalty for the average woman is 17.9 percent. The measured penalty actually increases when accounting for these influences because women workers, on average, have higher levels of education than men.
Models that control for a much larger set of variables—such as occupation, industry, or work hours—are sometimes used to isolate the role of discrimination in setting wages for specific jobs and workers. The notion is that if we can control for these factors, the wage gap will shrink, and what is left can be attributed to discrimination. Think of a man and woman with identical education and years of experience working side-by-side in cubicles but who are paid different wages because of discriminatory pay-setting practices. We also run a model with more of these controls, and find that the wage gap shrinks slightly from the unadjusted measure, from 17.9 percent to 13.5 percent. Researchers have used more extensive datasets to examine these differences. For instance, Blau and Kahn (2016) find an unadjusted penalty of 20.7 percent, a partially adjusted penalty of 17.9 percent, and a fully adjusted penalty of 8.4 percent.
A friend's daughter works in Silicon Valley as a programmer and can tell tales about the current problems. She was actually involved in a sexual harassment suit while she was working for a start-up which was drawn out and ugly and made her decide working in the start-up field was not worth the problems, even though the potential rewards were much higher.
People seem to think it was all "fixed" years ago and now we are all equally treated. People have short memories, it was only a few years ago that Chrysler's first woman CEO was not allowed at the golf club so much business was done at. Muirfield, a prestigious golf club in Scotland, only just voted to allow women in last year! And that was only because a profitable tournament was going to cancel.
That is the kind of inequality that isn't really about a golf game, it's about women being excluded from a place where big business deals are done all the time, and thus not having equal opportunities to make those deals herself.
So you believe that ALL female teachers with the same education as male teachers are paid 20% to 30% less? Have you rioted against your school board? Oh, wait, salaries are posted, they get paid EXACTLY THE SAME per salary schedule.
You believe that ALL female cops get paid 20% to 30% less than male cops? Aren't their salaries public? Oh Wait, they get paid the same.
You believe that every female real estate agent takes 20% to 30% less commission simply because she has a vagina?
You believe that ALL female lawyers get paid 20% to 30% less per billing hour? Really? Do you think they would stand for that?
You believe that ALL female MDs who work the same weekly hours, see the same numbers of patients and use the same insurers are just somehow paid 20% to 30% less than male MDs?
You believe that every time a female applicant for a job gets hired, the salary range is ignored by HR as are ALL EEO regulations ... just because ... and every single female in the US gets paid 20% to 30% less than her EQUAL male counterpart?
Ad nasuem with every single profession where the male and female applicant have comparable education, comparable years' experience and comparable skill sets.
Where are all these companies that are ignoring the EEO? Where are the millions and millions of lawsuits?
Talk about living outside reality. Seriously. All I can do is SMH.
There is NO WAGE GAP.
I'd draw some normal curves (bell curves in case you don't know about them NTV) to illustrate but c-d doesn't have that function. You're saying that as long as one women is getting paid the same or higher than men, then it doesn't count that more are getting paid less. Statistically, there can still be a significant difference between means (and even medians!) even when there is overlap. Didn't you ever take a stats class?
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