Why do some devoutly religious people pass judgement and opinions? (hell, church)
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I am just wondering why some religious people pass judgements and opinions.
Shouldn't be up to the god to make the judgement calls, I think its sort of bizzare that so many especially fundamentalist christians and pastors preach judgement from the pulpit.
I think its funny when people say God thinks this and God thinks that, how do they know what god thinks. Do they a superiority complex that makes them think God is constantly on the phone with God or something?
Why does God need to these judgemental religion-pushers to costantly be doing the judgement for him? Do they God thinks they are special?
Alot of deeply religious people especially for some strange feel the need to constantly be engaged in counterproductive
judgements and have a superiority complex. Just the other day these people in a bible study at a local coffee shop (I was just drinking coffee) were reading their bibles and books of religious leaders books and talking about how they are they are such perfectionists. Sounds like a severe superiority complex to me. I especially think religious debates are sort of different also, debating what God is saying? Whats that all about.
Seriously, do alot of these judgemental pastors and fundmentalist christians who are obcessed with taking a judgemental, negative tone in regards to religion really think they are closer to God then the rest of us. I dont think so and its sheer arrogance.
These religious leaders who pass judgement constantly and do nothing but critique people constantly and pass insults every time they get behind a pulpit do they honestly think God look upon that? I guess personally I dont know the answer to that because unlike alot of religious leaders and people constantly going on about their strict religious beliefs I dont claim to be closer to God then them.
To me, so much of these extremely inflexable attitudes towards religion turn people away from religion.
Why do Christians get all the credit of judging? Judging others is a human flaw. Yes there are many religious zealots that pass judgements and that is wrong. There is also many non religious people that pass judgements and that is wrong.
We all judge, if some one commits a crime and you think it is wrong, you are judging. If you tell your child to stay away from a certain friend because he is "bad news". That is called judging. Would you pick a friend that is a shoplifter?? If not, you have just passed judgement....it is not wrong to judge.
I think you're probably going to get a lot of "We're not passing judgement, we're just stating the Word as it's written" responses.
However...in my opinion, that "word" passes judgement all by itself. Basically, the idea is that if you're not Christian--if you don't accept Jesus as your savior--then you will go to hell. Period.
Again, most will say, "We never told you you'd go to hell!" No. You told us we wouldn't be saved. If you didn't mean saved from hell, I apologize. Maybe by "saved" you mean saved from a tax hike or something. But I have to go out on a limb here and assume it means saved from hell.
Which infers, obviously, that anyone who isn't Christian WILL go to hell. Not might, not maybe. But that Christianity is the ONLY way to not go to hell. In fact, that's the way the word is even stated (if I recall it correctly). Whomever enters the Kingdom of Heaven does so through me (Jesus) or something to that effect. Therefore...the judgement absolutely is there. Period. Anyone, ANYone who is not Christian is wrong. Period, the end. I think this is what a lot of Christians don't understand. They say, "We don't understand why people get so angry for us just for sharing our beliefs!" Well...because your beliefs are that you're good and will go to heaven, and I'm bad and I'll fry. Period.
I'm not trying to be snotty here. That seriously is the reason non-Christians get immediately defensive when "taught" by Christians. Defensiveness is almost a given. I do think that's something Christians may want to try to understand when they are confused as to why people seem to get angry at their prostyletizing. I say that informatively and that's it...not attempting snottiness. Just wanted to make that clear.
Why do Christians get all the credit of judging? Judging others is a human flaw. Yes there are many religious zealots that pass judgements and that is wrong. There is also many non religious people that pass judgements and that is wrong.
You're right, dreameyes. Of all the religious ppl on this forum you, wildberries and DBNN are sweethearts.
There is a difference between judging and making a choice, in my opinion. I choose not to associate with some people because of what they do...but I don't judge them. That isn't up to me. I choose not to agree with some people, but I do not judge them for what they believe. Once again, I believe the bottom line is that one can respect people even though they do not agree with them.
JerZ, I liked your post. Thank you. That shows that you have truly been thinking, instead of giving a knee-jerk angry reaction like what appears far too often whenever the thread has to do with Christianity. I appreciate that very much!
I would like to add this, though, to what you were saying about being saved and going to hell. I think people get caught up on the idea of hell and how could a loving God send people there. I see it this way: He simply honors our choice. If we choose to reject Him during our short time on earth, why would we want to be with Him forever? It simply doesn't add up. He's not going to force himself on anyone; that's not love. An existence without God is exactly what hell is... a place empty of love, pleasure, fun, joy, kindness, essentially everything we know that's good came from Him. Hell is simply being apart from God. It's when you consider what that truly means... that's when the scary part comes into play.
Anyway, back to Matt, I'm not sure where you're getting your info. When was the last time you were in a church? Or are you just talking about Pat Robertson and some of those other people on TV that are always making stupid predictions and otherwise being needlessly inflammatory? I ask these questions because your quoted experiences and mine are in two different worlds. Yikes, I have no interest in going to church and hearing people being criticized, yelled at, insulted, put down, or otherwise encouraged to hate. Maybe some wacko cults do that???
Have you spent time actually studying the Bible? I'm not saying this to condemn you, but if you haven't, then you might want to consider doing some reading. That alone would answer some of your questions about why Christians talk about knowing God, and if it didn't answer them, at least you would actually know something to be able to say WHY you don't agree with it instead of offering unsubstantiated criticism. That is my perspective on everything, BTW... try to educate yourself about it first, then we'll talk about your problem with it. Maybe you have done that already but you didn't allude to that in your post, so I'm assuming that you haven't cracked the cover of a Bible in years, if ever.
Either way, I'm genuinely sorry you've had experiences which have left you with such a bitter taste. That's not the way it's supposed to be, and I hope you don't ever give up asking the questions you're asking.
JerZ, I liked your post. Thank you. That shows that you have truly been thinking, instead of giving a knee-jerk angry reaction like what appears far too often whenever the thread has to do with Christianity. I appreciate that very much!
I would like to add this, though, to what you were saying about being saved and going to hell. I think people get caught up on the idea of hell and how could a loving God send people there. I see it this way: He simply honors our choice. If we choose to reject Him during our short time on earth, why would we want to be with Him forever? It simply doesn't add up. He's not going to force himself on anyone; that's not love. An existence without God is exactly what hell is... a place empty of love, pleasure, fun, joy, kindness, essentially everything we know that's good came from Him. Hell is simply being apart from God. It's when you consider what that truly means... that's when the scary part comes into play.
Anyway, back to Matt, I'm not sure where you're getting your info. When was the last time you were in a church? Or are you just talking about Pat Robertson and some of those other people on TV that are always making stupid predictions and otherwise being needlessly inflammatory? I ask these questions because your quoted experiences and mine are in two different worlds. Yikes, I have no interest in going to church and hearing people being criticized, yelled at, insulted, put down, or otherwise encouraged to hate. Maybe some wacko cults do that???
Have you spent time actually studying the Bible? I'm not saying this to condemn you, but if you haven't, then you might want to consider doing some reading. That alone would answer some of your questions about why Christians talk about knowing God, and if it didn't answer them, at least you would actually know something to be able to say WHY you don't agree with it instead of offering unsubstantiated criticism. That is my perspective on everything, BTW... try to educate yourself about it first, then we'll talk about your problem with it. Maybe you have done that already but you didn't allude to that in your post, so I'm assuming that you haven't cracked the cover of a Bible in years, if ever.
Either way, I'm genuinely sorry you've had experiences with have left you with such a bitter taste. That's not the way it's supposed to be, and I hope you don't ever give up asking the questions you're asking.
I would like to add this, though, to what you were saying about being saved and going to hell. I think people get caught up on the idea of hell and how could a loving God send people there. I see it this way: [I
He simply honors our choice.[/i] If we choose to reject Him during our short time on earth, why would we want to be with Him forever? It simply doesn't add up. He's not going to force himself on anyone; that's not love. An existence without God is exactly what hell is... a place empty of love, pleasure, fun, joy, kindness, essentially everything we know that's good came from Him.
You know, this is really, really interesting because I've actually thought about this concept a lot.
I can be crazy frivolous at times in my posts about religion but this is one I take very, very seriously.
I don't have "a" god per se...I mean I wasn't raised with one particular faith.
However, for whatever reason, even without any encouragement in a religious vein, I always did have some concept of a higher being. Granted it's my own and who knows...I could be entirely wrong. But I always pretty much got the feeling that God was like a parent. Christians (and Jews, I think) even call him Our Father, The Father or Heavenly Father.
Well, okay. I'm a parent. And here's how I see it. I do love my children. I love them no matter what they do or say to me. (I've had some trouble with the oldest, so I know whereof I speak.) But I would never give them a choice between being with me and having a wonderful happy life, or being without me and being in a hell of one description or another.
For a time, my oldest son wanted to be away from the home. I had remarried and he didn't like it. He was having serious problems at school. Things were falling apart for him and I couldn't stop the progression. I got on his nerves SERIOUSLY, AND I MEAN SERIOUSLY. I could tell that I literally couldn't say "pass the toast" without his teeth grating.
So...if this were a God analogy, I should by all rights have given him a choice:
1. "Be with me, where I will provide you with food and shelter and lots of birthday presents, and warmth and a cat and blah blah."
2. "Get the hell out. Live in the street. Life without me is harsh and cold. But remember, it's your choice."
I didn't give him only those two choices--because I love him. I'm only human and about as far from a god as any creature can get but even I was able to figure out a third solution: I sent him to live with my brother for several months. We talked it out beforehand. We agreed that this was the best thing. He could be away from me and feel calmer, but he would still be protected and have a place to live and sleep and be with someone who loved him.
With the "heaven/with God/the temperature is nice here/there are clouds" vs. "hell/without God/the devil feeds parts of your body every day to Adolph Hitler" idea, I just don't see real love. Not really. It's not unconditional. And here's the thing. I don't expect my son to love me no matter what. I don't expect him to be the grownup. I also accept that I created him so his faults are not actually his own. I don't see, in the above belief system, the same benefit of a doubt from God. It's, "Okay, I created you, and I allow you all your faults, and I give you a choice but I also give you every ache and pain of humanity that could cause practically anybody to make bad choices, but if you don't believe this one exact way, you're doomed."
That's the issue I have with the Christian belief system. You can't believe Jesus was a great person and a great teacher but doubt that his mother was a virgin, for example. Or take all of his teachings as wonderful things but wonder whether the story is just that, a story created by people to try to understand something that was very deep for a very simple people of the time. No, if you don't wholeheartedly believe the whole shebang--born of a virgin, son of God directly with no dude present, came back to life in flesh form and wandered around, etc., then you're doomed and that's it. And the choice--oh, but it is a choice!--is either accept all that and be in a great place, or not accept it the exact way it's taught in the Bible and be entirely without God's presence forever and ever.
EDITED: Took out a whole bunch of stuff that I think was probably just way beyond the scope of the original question.
Last edited by JerZ; 04-11-2007 at 12:23 AM..
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If you didn't mean saved from hell, I apologize. Maybe by "saved" you mean saved from a tax hike or something. But I have to go out on a limb here and assume it means saved from hell.
