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Today I want to give a discussion on what could still be gleaned from Jesus' life, if the claims of the Gospels aren't true. This is a take from the scholarly view of what they call the "Historical Jesus". First I'll outline the things scholars have a general consensus on given what is mentioned from the Gospels, and historical sources outside that context...
- It is generally accepted Jesus was from Nazareth.
- accepted Jesus had a large family.
- accepted Jesus was baptized by John. (May have been a disciple)
- accepted Jesus had His own disciples and taught
- accepted Jesus was crucified
- accepted Jesus' disciples preached He rose again
This is the basic consensus view of what most historians agree concerning Jesus. They believe it's possible Jesus at some point told His disciples He was the Messiah, but the claim of divinity was most likely made later by those same disciples. So let's take a look at things from this angle........
Jesus came from a relatively poor family. Being the oldest of His brothers and sisters, a lot would be expected on Him to carry the family name. It is generally believed the oldest son would take on the occupation of their fathers. In the case of Jesus, that occupation was craftsmanship. A lot of English translations of the New Testament state Joseph was a "carpenter". Yet the most accurate translation of the Greek word "tektōn" is artisan or craftsman, and is the basis for where we get our word 'architect" from.
Jesus following in the family business would have been considered a builder. No doubt He would have dealt with some woodworking, but it's most likely He worked with stone and stone masonry. He likely traveled with Joseph to different areas constructing buildings and other structures. This is what He did for most of His life. While working with His father Joseph, they may have had long discussions concerning Scripture and the Roman occupation. You can only imagine the bond Jesus had with Joseph. At some point, Joseph passes away, leaving the full responsibility of the family in Jesus' hands.
A lot was on Jesus' plate at this point in His life. It was around this time a cousin of His, John, began preaching in the wilderness. John proclaimed the people of Israel should repent, "For the kingdom of heaven has come near!" It was an apocalyptic message.
Now again, this is what critical scholars agree on concerning Jesus' life. They believe Jesus took this message to heart, and began to commit His life toward ushering in God's kingdom. He was baptized by John, and from that moment on He left His occupation of working on and crafting stone, and began working crafting the people. He left His family behind and gave His full attention to God's kingdom.
This is one of the most interesting details for me concerning Jesus. How He left everything behind in pursuit of this goal. Naturally looking at this, the world would condemn Jesus for doing such a thing, abandoning His family like that. Even more so given the culture of the oldest son having the responsibility of taking care of the family in the absence of the father. (And again, they were a poor family)
There was one instance where Mary and some of Jesus' brothers came to take Him back home, because there were those in His family who believed He wasn't in His right mind. Someone told Jesus His family was seeking Him, and He outwardly told the crowd around Him saying, "Who are My mother and My brothers?" Then looking around He pointed to them stating it was they, those who do the will of God, were His brothers, sisters, and mother.
I believe you would be a complete liar if you said that wasn't disrespectful toward His family. Jesus' actions go against our common and survival senses. Saying it was disrespectful would be putting it lightly. In the world, your family is supposed to be the ones who care about you the most. Of course I know that's not the case every time. Yet that is how things are supposed to be. At the very least, your mother cares for you. So goes the phrase of 'having the face only a mother could love'. However Jesus states those who do the will of God, they are His mother. So He refused to meet His family.
Now we see Jesus' complete dedication toward His message. Toward loving the least of the world, and bringing them the good news of God's kingdom. He absolutely left everything behind, denied Himself of His entire family, and became a servant of the world. Ultimately this shows us that even if Jesus didn't claim to be the Son of God or God in the flesh, we still very much see the same message of God's grace toward the world. We still see a Man who gave Himself to those who heard His message. And we see a Man who saw the value of every one, even to those who had skin diseases and were maimed and crippled. In truth, He put them first, before the well respected.
So as time went along, scholars believe from the historical view at some point Jesus began to tell His disciples He was the Messiah. During His last weeks, He entered the city of Jerusalem on a donkey, and this stirred up a crowd who were praising Him and making allusions to David's kingdom. All of this would have caught the attention of not only the religious establishment, but no doubt Rome's attention as well. Then came the incident at the temple, where Jesus drove out the commerce going on there.
Ultimately we know what happened next. For His actions, Jesus was crucified. If the scholarly view is correct, it gives a slightly different context to Jesus' cry on the cross, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" Remember, He gave up everything, including His own family, and pursued God's kingdom with His whole heart. Now here He is, dying on the cross, with people mocking Him for the things He spoke. Can you imagine what He must have felt at this point? The tears in His eyes?
I also want to point this out, He was completely naked on the cross. With His hands nailed, He can't cover Himself. This is part of the shame one endured under this punishment. It is a slow and agonizing death. Bugs flying around your face, crawling all over your body. You can't even shoo them away.
According to John's Gospel, after Jesus died, one of the Roman soldiers took a spear and pierced into His side to double check. Usually it could take multiple days before a person dies, but Jesus was beaten beyond recognition right before being nailed on the cross. Due to blood loss and exposure, Jesus only lasted a few hours.
The soldier most likely pierced into Jesus heart, and blood and plasma ( water) came out. This shows us while Jesus was on the cross, His heart likely ruptured. Jesus literally died of a broken heart. The Gospels record that Jesus gave out a loud cry right before dying, so Jesus' heart likely ruptured at that point.
The Gospels tell us some of the women who followed Jesus watched Him from a distance, while John's Gospel makes mention His mother was there with John. Jesus gave Himself for the world, but only His mother was there for Him while He was dying.
He was then taken down from the cross and was buried. Here is where the "Historical Jesus" story comes to an end as far as scholars are concerned. What happened afterward, can't be confirmed by critical analysis. Yet even if we say everything afterward was made up by Jesus' disciples, Jesus' message of the kingdom of heaven has no doubt spread throughout the world. What Jesus did while on the earth, wasn't a waste.
He gave up everything, even His own life for the whole world. His passion was great!!! It cost Him family and friends. He became an outcast. And He died in the most brutal way one can imagine, all the while being mocked for the life He lived and the message He preached. Even though at the time it all seemed in vain, that He wasted His life, in the end He's become the most important Man to have ever lived to this point! Even the family He left aside to do God's will, would come to believe His message. James His brother became one of the most important figures in the church at Jerusalem. Jesus gave up His life, and received so much more in return!!!
This is what can still be gleaned even if the claims of the Gospel and the New Testament aren't true. That's been my take. Yall give me your thoughts. What else could be learned from the Historical Jesus?
Let me explain the "REAL" truth about Jesus of Nazareth:
There is absolutely NO historical evidence for Jesus Christ.
"There is no definitive physical or archaeological evidence of the existence of Jesus. “There’s nothing conclusive, nor would I expect there to be,” Mykytiuk says. “Peasants don’t normally leave an archaeological trail.”
There is absolutely NO secular historical evidence for any of the apostles.
Would-be believers have to start with this salient fact before they contemplate making a commitment to a man-god figure who likely did not exist. Scholars will agree that someone likely existed upon which the legend of Jesus as it appears in the gospels is based, but he certainly had no supernatural powers nor was he the supernatural son of the Biblical god. Scholars believers he was some sort of shaman or apocalyptic preachers who ran afoul of the Romans and was crucified and left to rot on the cross. Anything more than that is pure speculation because we have no secular historical records that mention a Jesus who was crucified. It's all supposition, so think carefully before you choose to commit your life to a person who was most likely mythical.
There's a very good reason why the numbers of Christianity are dropping like a stone: reliable evidence for their god simply does not exist. The gospels are not recognized as historical records. Rather they are testaments of faith.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 02-05-2024 at 08:56 AM..
Outside of the Bible there are statements from Josephus and Tacitus about Jesus, his family, his death and that he had a multitude of followers that bothered the Romans.
Outside of the Bible there are statements from Josephus and Tacitus about Jesus, his family, his death and that he had a multitude of followers that bothered the Romans.
Tacitus mentions a "Chrestus" which later Christians attempted to alter the "e" to an "i" to make it look like "Christus" --a perfect example of how early Christianity was rife with dishonesty and deceit as the clergy attempted to trick pagans into believing their man-god was real. Notice the space between the "i" and "s" and you can clearly see it used to be an "e":
The Josephus passages are mired in controversy as again church clergy dishonestly attempted to alter the texts to make them appear to be referring to the man-god, Jesus of Nazareth.
"The first and most extensive reference to Jesus in the Antiquities, found in Book 18, states that Jesus was the Messiah and a wise teacher who was crucified by Pontius Pilate. It is commonly called the Testimonium Flavianum.[2]Some modern scholars reject the authenticity of this passage in its present form, while most scholars nevertheless hold that it contains an authentic nucleus referencing the life and execution of Jesus by Pilate, which was then subject to supposed Christian interpolation or alteration.[3][4] However, the exact nature and extent of the Christian addition remains unclear.[5][6]"
One has to reason: if God really wanted us to believe Jesus was his authentic son would God have left so much questionable "evidence" to support this contention?
The simple fact remains that NO historian outside of the Bible mentions the name, "Jesus"--not Tacitus, not Suetonius, not Pliny, not anybody. If you can find a secular historian who does mention the name "Jesus" that is not neck deep in controversy over interpolations by church scholars I would love to see it. It would make me seriously consider reconverting back to Christianity.
In terms of Jesus' existence, NT documents are valid evidences for that. Scholars reject the claims written about Him in the NT, but they are certainly valid for evidence of His existence. Jesus' own brother was the head of the church in Jerusalem. You could say the claims of Jesus in the NT are bias, but certainly not statements of His existence. As for historians outside of Jesus' flock (Roman historians, Greek historians, Jewish historians), why would they write extensively on Jesus Himself? No, they would write about the following once it grew.
Nothing that can’t be learned from other religious traditions or even secular philosophies.
That’s not to knock Christians who view the story of (at least in significant part, apocryphal) Jesus as reason to do good and make the world and better place.
But as a Jewish atheist whose ancestors were often tormented, maimed, and killed in Jesus’ name, let’s just say I’m not champing at the bit to use his alleged words and works as a teaching tool.
Nothing that can’t be learned from other religious traditions or even secular philosophies.
That’s not to knock Christians who view the story of (at least in significant part, apocryphal) Jesus as reason to do good and make the world and better place.
But as a Jewish atheist whose ancestors were often tormented, maimed, and killed in Jesus’ name, let’s just say I’m not champing at the bit to use his alleged words and works as a teaching tool.
If this is actually news to you, try reading a history book or several dozen.
Note that I’m not claiming Christians are the only ones to persecute Jews in the name of their religion, but they have the worst and most consistent track record.
::Sigh:: ANYONE who kills in the "name of God" and religion is an evil murderer, period. There is no justification for it and never was. That was the intended message (Gospel) of Jesus's sacrifice and LACK of wrath and vengeance despite His scourging and crucifixion, IMO!
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