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A different perspective:
Why wouldn't God come to the one who has sat in stillness and silence with an empty cup preparing a place for Him inside?
Why visit someone who is uninterested in "Him",(Who has no gender).
A guest comes to where he's invited, welcomed...and especially to the house with love and care for him...serving his favorite dish; has his favorite music and chair.
In this case the dish, the enticement is attention, focus on Him and what He loves - silence and sincerity.
Others are fast to call these visits* hallucinations or dreams...when in fact they are more real
than all that your eyes see when they are open.
From my experience....you could reference quantum research, also...nothing you see is what it seems.
*Visits - or when the clouds clear and you see what's revealed above the clouds that has always been there;
another way to put it.--if 'visits' is not relatable.
What about those who sit and wait with the empty cup inside of them and invite God in, but God does not come?
Can you fault them if they just eventually move on, accepting that God has not chosen them?
No it is NOT!. It is by learning the persona of Jesus Himself and His "mind of Christ" which is identical to the "mind of God" and His Holy Spirit. If you are NOT "in Christ" (in the "mind of Christ") you are not guided by His Holy Spirit, no matter what mumbo jumbo or supernatural magic you believe. Knowing God and Jesus is eternal life, and that is all about your state of mind (Spirit).
Philippians 2:5-30 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
Way to cherry-pick the Bible.
There is plenty of nasty, judgmental, fire-and-brimstone material attributed to Jesus. Just read the book of Matthew for starters.
It sounds to me like Eugene Debs was also doing some cherry-picking.
If there's anything good that came out of my fundamentalist Christian upbringing, it's this: I have some familiarity with the not-so-nice teachings of Jesus, and I can call BS on the people who think Jesus was a nice Jewish hippie or ancient Martin Luther King, Jr.
There is plenty of nasty, judgmental, fire-and-brimstone material attributed to Jesus. Just read the book of Matthew for starters.
It sounds to me like Eugene Debs was also doing some cherry-picking.
If there's anything good that came out of my fundamentalist Christian upbringing, it's this: I have some familiarity with the not-so-nice teachings of Jesus, and I can call BS on the people who think Jesus was a nice Jewish hippie or ancient Martin Luther King, Jr.
You are using what our ignorant, primitive, and barbaric ancestors' INTERPRETATIONS ATTRIBUTED to Jesus. I am using only what Jesus Himself DID and HIS reactions to the savagery done to HIM as my guide to HIS true nature and character. There is NONE of the OT barbarity in Him, NONE! If it is not in Him, it is NOT in God!
Last edited by MysticPhD; 12-14-2023 at 05:51 PM..
Why wouldn't God come to the one who has sat in stillness and silence with an empty cup preparing a place for Him inside?
Why, indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Why visit someone who is uninterested in "Him",(Who has no gender).
Things are the way they are because they got that way.
I was super interested in / open to god for 30 years. He isn't super interested in / open to me apparently. And once I gave up on hoping for his kind regard I was able to see that he was a chimera in the first place.
As I said, a true believer in Islam operates from a completely different mindset than mine. I do not see God as Islam presents Him and neither did Jesus. But our ancestors did see God the way you do (as do far too many believers even today) and that is the difference. The God Jesus presented and demonstrated on the Cross put the lie to our ancestors' (and Islam's) beliefs about God. There is no Hell as elaborated by primitive human ignorance, imagination, and superstition. Submission to commands is NOT what God wants from us. God is concerned with what kind of Spirits His children (ALL of us) are BECOMING, NOT how OBEDIENT we are to His commands . . . OR ELSE! Self-serving obedience to laws or commands under threat does not foster agape love of God and each other.
God did not make (or plan) for our ancestors or any of us to misunderstand anything (We do that quite easily on our own). We are responsible for what we do, NOT God's plans or Will. Pretending we can escape responsibility for what we do or what we are BECOMING by believing the right things or being obedient to the right rules is human wishful thinking and stupidity, IMO. If you are BECOMING a scumbag, what you believe or whatever rules you obey will make no difference whatsoever.
So the 10 commandments don't mean anything to you - because if you tried to follow the 10 commandments and tried to live your life by that code of conduct, then you are an "obedient" person - something that God does NOT want you to be. This is very interesting. A totally new version of Christianity.
Second, what exactly does "becoming" mean?
Say, God created two souls. One became Mother Teresa and the other became Hitler. Both then died.
What did they become, especially when you say there is no Hell?
And if there is no Hell then why is there a heaven?
As I said, a true believer in Islam operates from a completely different mindset than mine. I do not see God as Islam presents Him and neither did Jesus. But our ancestors did see God the way you do (as do far too many believers even today) and that is the difference. The God Jesus presented and demonstrated on the Cross put the lie to our ancestors' (and Islam's) beliefs about God. There is no Hell as elaborated by primitive human ignorance, imagination, and superstition. Submission to commands is NOT what God wants from us. God is concerned with what kind of Spirits His children (ALL of us) are BECOMING, NOT how OBEDIENT we are to His commands . . . OR ELSE! Self-serving obedience to laws or commands under threat does not foster agape love of God and each other.
God did not make (or plan) for our ancestors or any of us to misunderstand anything (We do that quite easily on our own). We are responsible for what we do, NOT God's plans or Will. Pretending we can escape responsibility for what we do or what we are BECOMING by believing the right things or being obedient to the right rules is human wishful thinking and stupidity, IMO. If you are BECOMING a scumbag, what you believe or whatever rules you obey will make no difference whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
So the 10 commandments don't mean anything to you - because if you tried to follow the 10 commandments and tried to live your life by that code of conduct, then you are an "obedient" person - something that God does NOT want you to be. This is very interesting. A totally new version of Christianity.
Second, what exactly does "becoming" mean?
Say, God created two souls. One became Mother Teresa and the other became Hitler. Both then died.
What did they become, especially when you say there is no Hell?
And if there is no Hell then why is there a heaven?
It is not a totally new version of Christianity. It is just more consistent with and compatible with the Holy Spirit of God as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross. God wants us to BECOME as much like Jesus as we can. The fact that you have to ask "What exactly does "becoming" mean?" is symptomatic of the mindset difference between you as a true believer in Islam and Me as a true believer in Christ.
The misguided lack of concern about what kind of person you are BECOMING results from the focus on obedience and beliefs, instead of your spiritual character and maturity. The use of "commands" was geared to "taming" our savage and uncivilized ancient ancestors. The commands were designed to produce better humans who would no longer need them because they have become part of their civilized and self-controlled character. The commands are anachronistic, counterproductive, and inappropriate for evolved, civilized, and spiritually mature individuals.
Jesus came to unambiguously demonstrate God's true nature of agape love and forgiveness and to teach the proper way (through the agape love of God and each other) to achieve God's broader scope and intentions for the commands and laws. If you are not concerned with what you are BECOMING, you are seriously missing the point. What you BECOME is what will determine your status and fate in the next life, NOT what you believed or how obedient you were to avoid punishment or gain rewards.
What about those who sit and wait with the empty cup inside of them and invite God in, but God does not come?
Can you fault them if they just eventually move on, accepting that God has not chosen them?
Well, first -Fault them? Above my pay grade.
All I can say is, (ok, for me, I'll say), if there is something (anything) you really want you don't give up.
I mean unless your faith just simply gives out. I mean you just succumb to failure;
could be a woman, a new red convertible, God, big money dumped into your lap, even a baby.
Say, God is like a beautiful woman - you try everything to get her attention.
I say...if you really want her ---you do different things, figure out what you're doing wrong.
Now, if you think she's not worth it...well then stop trying. Sure.
I'd say the one thing not to stop seeking would be the Big Enchilada...the supreme joy finding God.
Falling for the trick of the mind or lower ego self saying, 'It's too hard or impossible', is often an obstacle to overcome. True.
I mean what is the statistic...1 in 10,000 actually has what it takes to persevere seeking the goal of their choice?
God, financial success, fame, starting a family...whatever.
(A burning desire is a major factor - either you have it or ya don't... imo, that is.)
You are using what our ignorant, primitive, and barbaric ancestors' INTERPRETATIONS ATTRIBUTED to Jesus. I am using only what Jesus Himself DID and HIS reactions to the savagery done to HIM as my guide to HIS true nature and character. There is NONE of the OT barbarity in Him, NONE! If it is not in Him, it is NOT in God!
MQ or mordant might find this of interest by Mirabai:
If we could reach the Lord through immersion in water,
I would have asked to be born a fish in this life.
If we could reach Him through eating nothing but berries and wild nuts,
Then surely the saints would have been monkeys when they came from the womb!
If we could reach him by munching lettuce and dry leaves,
Then the goats would surely go to the Holy One before us!
If the worship of stone statues could bring us all the way,
I would have adored a granite mountain years ago.
Mirabai says: The heat of midnight tears will bring you to God.
It is not a totally new version of Christianity. It is just more consistent with and compatible with the Holy Spirit of God as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross. God wants us to BECOME as much like Jesus as we can. The fact that you have to ask "What exactly does "becoming" mean?" is symptomatic of the mindset difference between you as a true believer in Islam and Me as a true believer in Christ.
And how is that different than being "obedient" if we try to BECOME what God wants us to become?
Quote:
The misguided lack of concern about what kind of person you are BECOMING results from the focus on obedience and beliefs, instead of your spiritual character and maturity. The use of "commands" was geared to "taming" our savage and uncivilized ancient ancestors. The commands were designed to produce better humans who would no longer need them because they have become part of their civilized and self-controlled character. The commands are anachronistic, counterproductive, and inappropriate for evolved, civilized, and spiritually mature individuals.
Can you provide a few comparable examples of now and then?
Quote:
Jesus came to unambiguously demonstrate God's true nature of agape love and forgiveness and to teach the proper way (through the agape love of God and each other) to achieve God's broader scope and intentions for the commands and laws. If you are not concerned with what you are BECOMING, you are seriously missing the point. What you BECOME is what will determine your status and fate in the next life, NOT what you believed or how obedient you were to avoid punishment or gain rewards.
And what happens to those millions of ordinary people who lived and died before the arrival of Jesus on the scene?
What did God want them to "BECOME" since they never had a chance to look at Jesus and "BECOME" like him?
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