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The bold reveals the major fault with Islam (and most religions). It is the idea that we are supposed to OBEY rules claimed to be commanded by God. We are NOT "pets" or "slaves" in obedience training! We are "offspring" who are supposed to mature our human Spirits (minds) to match God's Holy Spirit as closely as possible. That refers to our MIND and that makes ALL "sins" what Harry calls "thought crimes" because they reflect what we desire and who we are BECOMING. God is concerned with what we are BECOMING, period! Worship is NOT for God. It is to evoke the proper state of mind (Spirit) in us.
So if Islam or God or religion prescribes to not rape, steal, kill the innocent, don’t do injustice to others, live with honesty and be peaceful - then - what you are saying is, that if you try to follow these guidelines you become a pet or a slave, and it’s a problem and a flaw - BUT - going against these prescriptions your soul will become “mature”, and you will BECOME God?
Last edited by GoCardinals; 11-19-2023 at 01:33 PM..
So if Islam or God or religion prescribes to not rape, steal, kill the innocent, don’t do injustice to others, live with honesty and be peaceful - then - what you are saying is, that if you try to follow these guidelines you become a pet or a slave, and it’s a problem and a flaw - BUT - going against these prescriptions your soul will become “mature”, and you will BECOME God?
As you are a Muslim, your mindset and mine are not remotely compatible. We are God's children and cannot become His pets or slaves! The point is NOT to AVOID those behaviors because they are prohibited by the command of God. We are to avoid them because the kind of Spirit we are supposed to BECOME would not ever WANT to do them!!
As you are a Muslim, your mindset and mine are not remotely compatible. We are God's children and cannot become His pets or slaves! The point is NOT to AVOID those behaviors because they are prohibited by the command of God. We are to avoid them because the kind of Spirit we are supposed to BECOME would not ever WANT to do them!!
We cannot become that kind of spirit even though that’s what we may want or some of us may want.
God will do that for us and make our spirits like that in the hereafter.
And God will do that if you have TRIED and put an effort towards become such spirits.
And this is where we try to follow whatvgood and avoid what’s bad (that you think is a problem and a flaw. We are NEVER 100% successful and we ALWAYS make mistakes - BUT - God looks at our efforts - and if they are genuine and honest then God will make our souls as such.
And that the point life given to us.
Without efforts and without trying, it’s a wishful thinking.
As you are a Muslim, your mindset and mine are not remotely compatible. We are God's children and cannot become His pets or slaves! The point is NOT to AVOID those behaviors because they are prohibited by the command of God. We are to avoid them because the kind of Spirit we are supposed to BECOME would not ever WANT to do them!!
we are not pets
we are not slaves to any human
we are not slaves to any king
we are not slaves to any president
we are only slaves to one who created us and that is a great honour
And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son.
Be He Glorified! Nay, but (those whom they call sons) are honoured slaves
any person with Common sense and rationality and typical nature behavior would not rape
and would not steal and would not do any crime thing
but these are only few examples of some forbidden actions
and all the bad actions must be recorded and to told to the people
even if they were the only the forbidden actions still need to be recorded and told to pepole as law
and that is why we had messengers and holy books
and we have to obedience and Comply to every thing in the final holy book as much as we could
to be in the save path
in other word to worship Allah
and not to be deceived by Satan,s (Iblis) thoughts that he put them in our chest and to make us chose the Hell end
For Satan is to man an avowed enemy.
Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, so worship Me
and keep up prayer for My remembrance:
Surely the hour is coming
I am about to make it manifest
so that every soul may be rewarded as it strives
Therefore let not him who believes not in it and follows his low desires turn you away from it
so that you should perish
Last edited by truth_teller; 11-19-2023 at 04:42 PM..
We cannot become that kind of spirit even though that’s what we may want or some of us may want.
God will do that for us and make our spirits like that in the hereafter.
And God will do that if you have TRIED and put an effort towards become such spirits.
And this is where we try to follow whatvgood and avoid what’s bad (that you think is a problem and a flaw. We are NEVER 100% successful and we ALWAYS make mistakes - BUT - God looks at our efforts - and if they are genuine and honest then God will make our souls as such.
And that the point life given to us.
Without efforts and without trying, it’s a wishful thinking.
Agreed. But the motive is NOT OBEDIENCE to God OR ELSE! It is because we KNOW what is right and we WANT to do what is right (even if we fail at times). As you say, God knows our hearts and cannot be fooled. He certainly cannot be "bribed" or "brown-nosed" by worship and trying to OBEY a bunch of rules and rituals! If we are a scum bag, we will be treated as a scum bag when we are before God. Simple as that.
The reaosn that made Iblis hate and envey us is becasue he was living and created before our father Adam
then Allah cretead Adam and ordered the angles including Iblis to prostrate to Adam as greeting and honouring to Adam.
Iblis refused to obey the order of Allah becasue he was haughty and he see him self over Adam .
Iblis is still living from day of the creation of Adam until now and until the last day then he will be put in Hell .
and from that day he was the enemy of Adam and all his offspring.
iblis won his over pride and haughtiness and the price is Hell.
any wise one should not reject the truth because his over pride and haughtiness .
And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being);
then We told the angels, "Prostrate yourselves to Adam", and they prostrated themselves, except Iblis (Satan),
he refused to be of those who prostrated themselves.
(Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate yourself, when I commanded you?"
Iblis said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay."
(Allah) said: "(O Iblis) get down from this (Paradise), it is not for you to be arrogant here. Get out, for you are of those humiliated and disgraced."
(Iblis) said: "Allow me respite till the Day they are raised up (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."
(Allah) said: "You are of those respited."
(Iblis) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path.
"Then I will come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and from their left,
and You will not find most of them as thankful ones (i.e. they will not be dutiful to You)."
(Allah) said (to Iblis): "Get out from this (Paradise), disgraced and expelled. Whoever of them (mankind) will follow you, then surely I will fill Hell with you all."
"And O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in Paradise, and eat thereof as you both wish,
but approach not this tree otherwise you both will be of the Zalimun (unjust and wrong-doers)."
Then Shaitan (Satan) whispered suggestions to them both in order to uncover that which was hidden from them of their private parts (before);
he said: "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree save that you should become angels or become of the immortals."
And he [Shaitan (Satan)] swore by Allah to them both (saying): "Verily, I am one of the sincere well-wishers for you both."
So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them
and they began to cover themselves with the leaves of Paradise (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying):
"Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Shaitan (Satan) is an open enemy unto you?"
They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. If You forgive us not, and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers."
(Allah) said: "Get down, one of you is an enemy to the other [i.e. Adam, Hawwa' (Eve), and Shaitan (Satan)]. On earth will be a dwelling-place for you and an enjoyment for a time."
He said: "Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from it you shall be brought out (i.e. resurrected)."
O Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts) and as an adornment;
and the raiment of righteousness, that is better. Such are among the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, that they may remember
(i.e. leave falsehood and follow truth ).
O Children of Adam! Let not Shaitan (Satan) deceive you, as he got your parents [Adam and Hawwa' (Eve)] out of Paradise,
stripping them of their raiments, to show them their private parts.
Verily, he and Qabiluhu (his soldiers from the jinn or his tribe) see you from where you cannot see them.
Verily, We made the Shayatin (devils) Auliya' (protectors and helpers) for those who believe not.
Last edited by truth_teller; 11-20-2023 at 03:16 PM..
when baby is born , then gradually thru his babyhood he
would learn the names of some basic things from his parents
but Adam did not have parents and he was the only human ,
so how did he learned the names of things
the recorded method for the way he learned the names of things
is a sign for the existance of the creator for thsoe who have opened heart,
and indepedant brain and logic and not haughty ,
and also a sign for the truth of the final holy book.
Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth."
They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?-
whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?"
He said: "I know what ye know not." And He taught Adam the names of all things;
then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the names of these if ye are right."
They said: "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us:
In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."
He said: "O Adam! Tell them their names." When he had told them,
Allah said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"
And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down.
Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.
We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will;
but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."
Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been.
We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves.
On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."
Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me,
whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
"But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein.
and that is how we knew about the names of natural things, we inherented from our father Adam and he knew them from Allah.
for examle the word tree , mountain , water, apple ..etc were not evolved but were giving to us from Allah
Believe it or not it is each indivisual fate , Paradise or Hell
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