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Old 11-16-2023, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32966

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This is an absolutely pathetic case.

It makes me proud to be an atheist.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...t/71532639007/
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:33 AM
 
7,362 posts, read 4,142,168 times
Reputation: 16817
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
This is an absolutely pathetic case.

It makes me proud to be an atheist.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...t/71532639007/
The headline is misleading - The priest did not raped or abuse the child.

The Confessional booth is private - regardless of the sins confessed. It's been this way for thousands of years.

What we don't know is what the priest said to him - obviously, the priest could not give him absolution and probably told him to report himself to the police.

If he had been an atheist, he wouldn't gone to confession and no one would ever know. I don't why you would be proud - it's the same outcome.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32966
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
The headline is misleading - The priest did not raped or abuse the child.

The Confessional booth is private - regardless of the sins confessed. It's been this way for thousands of years.

What we don't know is what the priest said to him - obviously, the priest could not give him absolution and probably told him to report himself to the police.

If he had been an atheist, he wouldn't gone to confession and no one would ever know. I don't why you would be proud - it's the same outcome.
Excuse me. The headline does not say nor imply that the priest raped the children. You are misleading people here in the forum.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:52 AM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,018,225 times
Reputation: 7022
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Excuse me. The headline does not say nor imply that the priest raped the children. You are misleading people here in the forum.
The headline says, "An Arizona child is raped. The clergy stays silent. Then comes the truly shocking part" It is a bit misleading.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32966
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
The headline says, "An Arizona child is raped. The clergy stays silent. Then comes the truly shocking part" It is a bit misleading.
I don't agree. It just says the clergy stayed silent. If you choose to read something into that that is not there, that's on you.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:59 AM
 
4,025 posts, read 1,879,736 times
Reputation: 8648
I guess the shocking part for me is the clergy person thought his career was more important than a five-year old rape victim.



The correct move there is to accept your sign (from God) that this is your moment - put up or shut up - are you really ready to "sacrifice" - then do it. Quit your job, give up your Bishop-ness - and save someone else.


But - nope.



If anyone is truly surprised that some clergy heard a horrifying confession and did nothing - I guess you don't understand what confession is.
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Old 11-16-2023, 10:00 AM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,018,225 times
Reputation: 7022
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't agree. It just says the clergy stayed silent. If you choose to read something into that that is not there, that's on you.
More like you are choosing not to read something that is there. Either way, have a good day.
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Old 11-16-2023, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,837 posts, read 24,347,720 times
Reputation: 32966
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
I guess the shocking part for me is the clergy person thought his career was more important than a five-year old rape victim.



The correct move there is to accept your sign (from God) that this is your moment - put up or shut up - are you really ready to "sacrifice" - then do it. Quit your job, give up your Bishop-ness - and save someone else.


But - nope.



If anyone is truly surprised that some clergy heard a horrifying confession and did nothing - I guess you don't understand what confession is.
Beyond the 5 year old...the infant.
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Old 11-16-2023, 11:11 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,027,780 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
The headline is misleading - The priest did not raped or abuse the child.

The Confessional booth is private - regardless of the sins confessed. It's been this way for thousands of years.

What we don't know is what the priest said to him - obviously, the priest could not give him absolution and probably told him to report himself to the police.

If he had been an atheist, he wouldn't gone to confession and no one would ever know. I don't why you would be proud - it's the same outcome.
It wasn't a priest.
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Old 11-16-2023, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in Time
501 posts, read 169,059 times
Reputation: 341
I believe it was Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes who famously said "Hard cases make bad law." He meant that ghastly facts create a great temptation for judges to misapply (or not apply) important principles of law.

There is a reason for the confessional privilege. If those who confess to their bishops and priests had no assurance of confidentiality, the entire purpose of confession would be lost. The sacrament of confession is an entirely religious rite in an entirely religious setting for entirely religious purposes. It is an easy thing for a secular journalist to suggest it's all nonsense and the bishop or priest should just call the police, but this is not how the sacrament is viewed by the participants.

Without the assurance of confidentiality, predators such as the one in this case would surely not confess their crimes at all - so nothing would be gained and whatever benefit flows from confession would be lost. Never mind that the mandatory reporting laws are very broad and would have the bishop or priest reporting far less egregious abuse than occurred in this case. (Having said all that, my state Texas is one of six states that do require reporting by clergy with no exemption for confessional communications.)

As someone in the article pointed out, there are always numerous persons in the victim's circle who might suspect or discover the abuse and report it. To place the onus on the priest or bishop, completing eviscerating the purpose and benefit of confession, seems misguided to me - a perfect illustration of ghastly facts creating a strong temptation to misapply the law (or enact a law such as Texas has).
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