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There is a church, a type of Baptist church (not southern) where I have a friend who is a pastor, and a few friends who are members My involvement with them was limited to charitable events, which through this church are numerous and ecumenical. Over the past couple of years, they have assimilated me into their family, and that is ok although I do not do ormal memberships, they are for the most part good people.
As I was attending a Bible study there, prior to a charity meeting, (which does not offend me, as I am not so easily influenced to feel threatened by other's beliefs) the topoic came up yet again of "right belief"
TO me, of course, there is no such thing. Belief is what an individuals upbringing and experiences, in a pure form, have shown them. But there seems to be a parger movement in CHristinity in which people are obssessed iwth having the "right belief" And while this is dog mess to an enlightened cat like myself, I noticed that some seemed to be very concerned about it. The session was followed by an audience participation. SOmeone sitting behind me, who turned out to be another pastor of this church, made a comment which triggered a memory of something I read and discussed with a professor in college, and no it was not Bibblical but very true and observent none the less.
The guy did not seem too impressed with my "non-Biblical " response which centered around the fact that a healthy person need not have "fear" as a guiding factor. This of course goes against the "Fear of the Lord" idea which is primal to certain Baptist sects.
His response was to ask me what I believe, if I had accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior etc I told him that what I believe is irrelevant in this point, but that what HE believes is important, being that he is on the payroll of the church, whereas i am not.
My point to which he wanted no further conversation, being that is he like a Ford salesman who drives a Mercedes? Or a butcher who is a vegan? Does HE Believe what he sells ?
BUT I forgot how obsessed fundies can be about others beliefs (and genitalia) so the conversation came to an abrupt "Well thank you for stopping by" and he left
Not that I was disrespectful. Just not bringing a life rooted in fear or negativity which seems to motivate many who were there.
THEN
On to the more important aspect, getting the food transported from local places who are willing to donate it IF it can be picked up.
That being said, a few weeks ago I got a booklet at work addressed to me asking me if I wanted to pay an ungodly amount of $$ to become a certified Aromatherapy provider. This was an accredited (supposedly) program targeting various providers on all levels, and while intriguing, I did not see it as something worth the time. But above that, I am just not into it...am I to offer my clients something to which I myself do not subscribe? say "Here give me $100 for an aroma therapy session along with $$$$ for the materials and I will teach you how to use the "right smells' to improve your life....." To me, that is dog manure......but some are making $$$ Doing it. To me, it is a pseudo-scientific fad, and I do not want to be involved.
Which brings me to a point, that I know there are religious people who do not believe in the product they sell, but make $$ Doing it......Perhaps I have too much of a moral compass or too little greed to be involved in that.
SO when a pastor tries to ask me what I believe, my response is it does not matter. We have hungry people in a community, who thanks to inflation, cannot get food on the table. And we have food, that thanks to lack of transportation and costs, would go wasted, and we have people(restaurant suppliers, grocery stores, farmers) who are willing to give it to us at little or NO Cost, we just have to coordinate a way to get it to distribute it once a week to the community. I DO believe in helping people, especially families. What I believe about god, Jesus, mythology, does not really matter. There is no "right thing" to which we must pay lip services. Only right actions, those of charity and forbearance, humanitarianism actions which do not bring harm to self or others.
That's part of reason I don't go to churches or stick around fundies.
Anyhow. There's only one principle, you should follow.
I am liable for mine
Everyone else is liable for theirs.
That's it. You do what your heart tells you is right to do. Steer clear off any religious conversations. And politics. Those are two topics guaranteed to cause trouble. Maybe weather?
There is a church, a type of Baptist church (not southern) where I have a friend who is a pastor, and a few friends who are members My involvement with them was limited to charitable events, which through this church are numerous and ecumenical. Over the past couple of years, they have assimilated me into their family, and that is ok although I do not do ormal memberships, they are for the most part good people.
As I was attending a Bible study there, prior to a charity meeting, (which does not offend me, as I am not so easily influenced to feel threatened by other's beliefs) the topoic came up yet again of "right belief"
TO me, of course, there is no such thing. Belief is what an individuals upbringing and experiences, in a pure form, have shown them. But there seems to be a parger movement in CHristinity in which people are obssessed iwth having the "right belief" And while this is dog mess to an enlightened cat like myself, I noticed that some seemed to be very concerned about it. The session was followed by an audience participation. SOmeone sitting behind me, who turned out to be another pastor of this church, made a comment which triggered a memory of something I read and discussed with a professor in college, and no it was not Bibblical but very true and observent none the less.
The guy did not seem too impressed with my "non-Biblical " response which centered around the fact that a healthy person need not have "fear" as a guiding factor. This of course goes against the "Fear of the Lord" idea which is primal to certain Baptist sects.
His response was to ask me what I believe, if I had accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior etc I told him that what I believe is irrelevant in this point, but that what HE believes is important, being that he is on the payroll of the church, whereas i am not.
My point to which he wanted no further conversation, being that is he like a Ford salesman who drives a Mercedes? Or a butcher who is a vegan? Does HE Believe what he sells ?
BUT I forgot how obsessed fundies can be about others beliefs (and genitalia) so the conversation came to an abrupt "Well thank you for stopping by" and he left
Not that I was disrespectful. Just not bringing a life rooted in fear or negativity which seems to motivate many who were there.
THEN
On to the more important aspect, getting the food transported from local places who are willing to donate it IF it can be picked up.
That being said, a few weeks ago I got a booklet at work addressed to me asking me if I wanted to pay an ungodly amount of $$ to become a certified Aromatherapy provider. This was an accredited (supposedly) program targeting various providers on all levels, and while intriguing, I did not see it as something worth the time. But above that, I am just not into it...am I to offer my clients something to which I myself do not subscribe? say "Here give me $100 for an aroma therapy session along with $$$$ for the materials and I will teach you how to use the "right smells' to improve your life....." To me, that is dog manure......but some are making $$$ Doing it. To me, it is a pseudo-scientific fad, and I do not want to be involved.
Which brings me to a point, that I know there are religious people who do not believe in the product they sell, but make $$ Doing it......Perhaps I have too much of a moral compass or too little greed to be involved in that.
SO when a pastor tries to ask me what I believe, my response is it does not matter. We have hungry people in a community, who thanks to inflation, cannot get food on the table. And we have food, that thanks to lack of transportation and costs, would go wasted, and we have people(restaurant suppliers, grocery stores, farmers) who are willing to give it to us at little or NO Cost, we just have to coordinate a way to get it to distribute it once a week to the community. I DO believe in helping people, especially families. What I believe about god, Jesus, mythology, does not really matter. There is no "right thing" to which we must pay lip services. Only right actions, those of charity and forbearance, humanitarianism actions which do not bring harm to self or others.
You bring out an important point:
When a person's paycheck depends on whether they believe in Jesus or not, naturally they believe in Jesus even if they don't. Thousands of closet atheists are stuck in the ministry because to declare their atheism would automatically cut them off from the only source of income they have known since Bible college. That's why the Clergy Project came about
"Are you a religious professional who no longer believes in any God or gods?
Have you remained in vocational ministry, secretly hiding away your non-belief?
Are you struggling over where to go from here with your life and career?"
When a person's paycheck depends on whether they believe in Jesus or not, naturally they believe in Jesus even if they don't. Thousands of closet atheists are stuck in the ministry because to declare their atheism would automatically cut them off from the only source of income they have known since Bible college. That's why the Clergy Project came about
"Are you a religious professional who no longer believes in any God or gods?
Have you remained in vocational ministry, secretly hiding away your non-belief?
Are you struggling over where to go from here with your life and career?"
I understand business is booming at the Clergy Project.
I have met some clergy who obviously were only interested in making money from their work...and it showed.
As for the philosophy or idea taught by some clergy, and followers that "You have to believe the right thing" , well to me, that is total canine feces....
But as Spock would say, in regards to that place, "Logic and Reason do not seem to apply here"
I would like though to throw in some basic Jedi teachings, including the point that fear is a path to the dark side, and see how that goes with the overlying "fear" that some there seem to exhibit....BUT I am there to help coordinate food distribution to the needy, not to discuss theology.
When a person's paycheck depends on whether they believe in Jesus or not, naturally they believe in Jesus even if they don't.
It extends to more subtle levels as well.
Back in the day, I was not opposed to Bible study and spiritual reflection, but the pastor of our church was really strident about the topic. If you "really" loved Jesus you would devote some time to the study of his word and similar devotional activities daily without fail. People claim they don't have time -- well then, just get up a half hour earlier.
I reminded him that he gets paid to study and think great thoughts about god 24/7, whereas most people expend 110% of their life force on jobs they mostly hate and it isn't just God that wants their attention and enthusiasm in their free time -- it is their wife and children. And their pastor, lol. So no, this idealistic nonsense was not going to fly.
To be honest, like more than a few fundagelical pastors, the guy was not a talented orator OR thinker and was just trying to blame the sheeple for being bored and uninspired by his ministrations.
Misunderstanding. It is not that we have to have faith. It is that we CAN have faith because it is TRUE that Jesus saved us. We don't have anything to do with it and it is finished. All this angst and concern over what we need to do, not do, or believe to be saved is pointless. We just need to focus on what we BECOME through the agape love of God and each other as Jesus instructed and demonstrated.
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They reflect what kind of Spirit you are BECOMING.
