Seventh Day Adventists and Health (hell, suicide, Jews, Christian)

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

The documentary was "In Defense of Food" by Michael Pollan. It claimed the Seventh Day Adventists have the longest lifespan of any religious group because they eat very healthy and exercise due to religious beliefs. I can't guarantee that it is 100% accurate though.Interesting! Go nuns!

no that is not what is put forth in the documentary. Here is what is put forth, from the PBS site for that show "In Defense of Food": "in Loma Linda, California, where a group of Seventh-day Adventist vegetarians live longer than almost anyone else on earth."

there are three factors mentioned in that PBS documentary, including not just religion, but also location (living in a blue zone) and being vegetarian. (The PBS documentary "explains why the solution to our dietary woes is in fact remarkably simple: Eat Food, Not Too Much, Mostly Plants.")

clearly that is very different from what is stated in post above and what is stated in OP. The studies and links on Adventist longevity are related ONLY to the Blue Zone Adventists in Loma Linda California, and this does not include the 40% of the Adventists who live in the South or the 10% of the Adventists who live in the Midwest.

One could just as easily (and more accurately) make the case that vegetarians and those who exercise live longer, and yes research does show this: "Eating a mostly plant-based diet can prolong life expectancy by over 10 years." and "Among a group of 70,000 participants, researchers determined that vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of death compared with nonvegetarians. Study is published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine."

Time article Seven Reasons Vegetarians Live Longer
and here Do Vegans live longer and here Vegetarians May Live Longer

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

no that is not what is put forth in the documentary. Here is what is put forth, from the PBS site for that show "In Defense of Food": "in Loma Linda, California, where a group of Seventh-day Adventist vegetarians live longer than almost anyone else on earth."

there are three factors mentioned in that PBS documentary, including not just religion, but also location (living in a blue zone) and being vegetarian. (The PBS documentary "explains why the solution to our dietary woes is in fact remarkably simple: Eat Food, Not Too Much, Mostly Plants.")

clearly that is very different from what is stated in post above and what is stated in OP. The studies and links on Adventist longevity are related ONLY to the Blue Zone Adventists in Loma Linda California, and this does not include the 40% of the Adventists who live in the South or the 10% of the Adventists who live in the Midwest.

One could just as easily (and more accurately) make the case that vegetarians and those who exercise live longer, and yes research does show this: "Eating a mostly plant-based diet can prolong life expectancy by over 10 years." and "Among a group of 70,000 participants, researchers determined that vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of death compared with nonvegetarians. Study is published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine."

Time article Seven Reasons Vegetarians Live Longer
and here Do Vegans live longer and here Vegetarians May Live Longer

I am sure a healthy diet plays a part in longevity but it is not the only reason. Pollution, stress, mental health, genetics, connections etc all these play a part as well. If diet is the only thing Indians should win the game as many are vegetarians. But many suffer all the ailments common to all, which shorten life.
It seems the specific conditions that obtain in Loma Linda has something more to do with those fortunate Adventists’ longevity, as you have noted as well.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

One could just as easily (and more accurately) make the case that vegetarians and those who exercise live longer, and yes research does show this: "Eating a mostly plant-based diet can prolong life expectancy by over 10 years." and "Among a group of 70,000 participants, researchers determined that vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of death compared with nonvegetarians. Study is published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine."

Well, yes. Obviously, that, along with strong in-group communal ties (which cannot be discounted) is the driving reason SDAs have such exceptional longevity. I don’t think anyone’s suggesting their underlying spiritual beliefs are the determinative factor.

Loma Linda is special because it has a large critical mass of SDA adherents, and major SDA religious and scholarly institutions, which makes it ripe for SDA case studies. Again, apart from the strong communal ties that SDAs share in Loma Linda which they can’t take for granted in most other places, I don’t think there’s something special in the San Bernardino County air or water that makes Loma Linda SDAs live longer. Loma Linda is a blue zone because of the SDAs.

Originally Posted by cb2008

I am sure a healthy diet plays a part in longevity but it is not the only reason. Pollution, stress, mental health, genetics, connections etc all these play a part as well. If diet is the only thing Indians should win the game as many are vegetarians. But many suffer all the ailments common to all, which shorten life.
It seems the specific conditions that obtain in Loma Linda has something more to do with those fortunate Adventists’ longevity, as you have noted as well.

India also remains a developing country. But in Western and Western-facing nations (like the U.S.), South Asians do have fairly long life expectancies.

[QuakerBaker]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

no that is not what is put forth in the documentary. Here is what is put forth, from the PBS site for that show "In Defense of Food": "in Loma Linda, California, where a group of Seventh-day Adventist vegetarians live longer than almost anyone else on earth."

there are three factors mentioned in that PBS documentary, including not just religion, but also location (living in a blue zone) and being vegetarian. (The PBS documentary "explains why the solution to our dietary woes is in fact remarkably simple: Eat Food, Not Too Much, Mostly Plants.")

clearly that is very different from what is stated in post above and what is stated in OP. The studies and links on Adventist longevity are related ONLY to the Blue Zone Adventists in Loma Linda California, and this does not include the 40% of the Adventists who live in the South or the 10% of the Adventists who live in the Midwest.

One could just as easily (and more accurately) make the case that vegetarians and those who exercise live longer, and yes research does show this: "Eating a mostly plant-based diet can prolong life expectancy by over 10 years." and "Among a group of 70,000 participants, researchers determined that vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of death compared with nonvegetarians. Study is published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine."

Time article Seven Reasons Vegetarians Live Longer
and here Do Vegans live longer and here Vegetarians May Live Longer

I am not the smartest person, but I do recall them saying that they live longer than any other religious group and they claimed specifically due to their exercise, diet, and avoiding of alcohol and tobacco. Why do they have that good lifestyle? Because as the documentary said, their religion says to look at their bodies as temples.

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

I am not the smartest person, but I do recall them saying that they live longer than any other religious group and they claimed specifically due to their exercise, diet, and avoiding of alcohol and tobacco. Why do they have that good lifestyle? Because as the documentary said, their religion says to look at their bodies as temples.

the PBS site itself for that documentary clarifies, it is NOT what is stated above.
Here is link to the actual transcript of the show. It includes the following statements:

"the Seventh-Day Adventists promoted vegetarianism."
"Here in Loma Linda, California, many people belong to the same religious denomination the Seventh-Day Adventists."
"Today, Adventists have the longest life expectancy of any group in the United States"

[NOTE: not "religion", not "any religious group", not "in the world". just group in the United States.]
"Almost all Adventists abstain from smoking and alcohol. And about fifty percent of them are vegetarians"
"Studies show that the more red meat you eat, the greater your risk of getting heart disease, diabetes and certain cancers."

"studies comparing the longevity of both kinds of Adventists: meat eaters and vegetarians. He’s found that vegetarian Adventists live three to four years longer than non-vegetarian ones, and six to nine years longer than the rest of us."

[again NOTE: emphasis is on higher longevity in vegetarian Adventists. And also note, 50% of Adventists eat meat, so it is not a religious injunction. the church prohibits alcohol tobacco recreational drugs, but does not have injunction against meat.]

here is transcript to the PBS documentary In Defense of Food

it is safe to say and research supports it, that groups of people who are vegetarians and abstain from tobacco alcohol and recreational drugs, yes live longer.
it is not accurate what is stated in the OP and in the post above.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

I am not the smartest person, but I do recall them saying that they live longer than any other religious group and they claimed specifically due to their exercise, diet, and avoiding of alcohol and tobacco. Why do they have that good lifestyle? Because as the documentary said, their religion says to look at their bodies as temples.

You’re plenty smart. Tzaphkiel is nitpicking and making strawman arguments for reasons open to speculation.

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

the PBS site itself for that documentary clarifies, it is NOT what is stated above.
Here is link to the actual transcript of the show. It includes the following statements:

"the Seventh-Day Adventists promoted vegetarianism."
"Here in Loma Linda, California, many people belong to the same religious denomination the Seventh-Day Adventists."
"Today, Adventists have the longest life expectancy of any group in the United States"

[NOTE: not "religion", not "any religious group", not "in the world". just group in the United States.]
"Almost all Adventists abstain from smoking and alcohol. And about fifty percent of them are vegetarians"
"Studies show that the more red meat you eat, the greater your risk of getting heart disease, diabetes and certain cancers."

"studies comparing the longevity of both kinds of Adventists: meat eaters and vegetarians. He’s found that vegetarian Adventists live three to four years longer than non-vegetarian ones, and six to nine years longer than the rest of us."

[again NOTE: emphasis is on higher longevity in vegetarian Adventists. And also note, 50% of Adventists eat meat, so it is not a religious injunction.]

here is transcript to the PBS documentary In Defense of Food

it is safe to say and research supports it, that groups of people who abstain from smoking and alcohol and are vegetarians live longer.
it is not accurate what is stated in the OP and in the post above.

In other words, SDAs, who are by and large physically active, healthy eaters, non-drinkers, and non-smokers, have significantly higher life expectancies, because they live such a healthy lifestyle.

In terms of SDAs being equally divided between vegetarians and non-vegetarians, a far lower proportion of American Jews (one sixth) keep kosher. But that doesn’t mean kashrut is not a Jewish religious edict. You also don’t have to be fully vegetarian or vegan to appreciate the health benefits associated with limiting one’s red meat consumption.

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

You’re plenty smart. Tzaphkiel is nitpicking and making strawman arguments for reasons open to speculation.In other words, SDAs, who are by and large physically active, healthy eaters, non-drinkers, and non-smokers, have significantly higher life expectancies, because they live such a healthy lifestyle.

In terms of SDAs being equally divided between vegetarians and non-vegetarians, a far lower proportion of American Jews (one sixth) keep kosher. But that doesn’t mean kashrut is not a Jewish religious edict. You also don’t have to be fully vegetarian or vegan to appreciate the health benefits associated with limiting one’s red meat consumption.

the thread is not about Jews. so that is irrelevant to discussion.

the only point i am making is for accuracy in presenting data.
there is nothing "nitpicking" or "argumentative" about presenting data accurately.

that's why sources are useful, for readers to evaluate the validity of whatever statements are being made

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

You’re plenty smart. Tzaphkiel is nitpicking and making strawman arguments for reasons open to speculation.In other words, SDAs, who are by and large physically active, healthy eaters, non-drinkers, and non-smokers, have significantly higher life expectancies, because they live such a healthy lifestyle.In terms of SDAs being equally divided between vegetarians and non-vegetarians, a far lower proportion of American Jews (one sixth) keep kosher. But that doesn’t mean kashrut is not a Jewish religious edict. You also don’t have to be fully vegetarian or vegan to appreciate the health benefits associated with limiting one’s red meat consumption.

anyone (individually or as a group) who lives a healthy lifestyle that includes exercise, healthy eating, vegetarian, no alcohol, no tobacco, no recreational drugs, is going to have a longer life expectancy.

that is the point that the PBS documentary "in Defense of Food" was making. "In Defense of Food offers viewers simple, practical advice on healthier eating. It’s indispensable viewing for anyone interested in the relationship between food and health."

"Eat food, not too much, mostly plants, is what our species has done for hundreds of thousands of years,” he adds. “So that advice is about as universal as any advice you could offer. It’s very rare in our lives where the answer to a complicated question is so simple, but when it comes to eating, it is.”

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

the thread is not about Jews. so that is irrelevant to discussion.

You claimed SDA vegetarianism was not religiously rooted because “only” 50% SDAs are vegetarian. I cited American Jews’ far lower Kashrut adherence rate to explain why that’s not a valid argument. You actually first brought up Jews in the thread when you cited a Pew study to attempt to refute the notion that SDAs are the longest-living religious group. Except that didn’t work because the Pew survey lumped all Christians together.

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

the only point i am making is for accuracy in presenting data.
there is nothing "nitpicking" or "argumentative" about presenting data accurately.

But you’re not actually refuting anything. You’re twisting semantics and making strawman arguments that are often refuted by the very sources you cite. Listen: I love being Jewish, too, and we fare quite well in terms of life expectancy among religious groups. But we’re not #1, and you’re just going to have to accept that.

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

anyone (individually or as a group) who lives a healthy lifestyle that includes exercise, healthy eating, vegetarian, no alcohol, no tobacco, no recreational drugs, is going to have a longer life expectancy.

Absolutely. And I don’t know why you keep repeating that strawman argument because no one claimed otherwise.

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

that's why sources are useful, for readers to evaluate the validity of whatever statements are being made

And I posted a Wikipedia article with descriptions of and citations to numerous SDA longevity studies. Did you read it, or are you ignoring it because it doesn’t suit your agenda?

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by QuakerBaker

I am not the smartest person, but I do recall them saying that they live longer than any other religious group and they claimed specifically due to their exercise, diet, and avoiding of alcohol and tobacco. Why do they have that good lifestyle? Because as the documentary said, their religion says to look at their bodies as temples.

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

the PBS site itself for that documentary clarifies, it is NOT what is stated above.
Here is link to the actual transcript of the show. It includes the following statements:


<<snipped for brevity>>

I suppose this was posted to be argumentative. It's quite obvious that what QualerBaker said was what the SDA people claim about themselves. And, yes, they do say their bodies are temples.