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i can assure you that just as your own Christian views and understanding make sense to you,
so too do my own Jewish views and understanding make sense to me.
and that is the topic of this thread, what makes more sense to you.
Resurrection of the dead is a core doctrine of Jewish theology. Similarly, reincarnation is is an integral part of Jewish belief that has always been around and is firmly rooted in source-verses. Now you know. So let's make a deal: i won't claim that your views opinions and beliefs "can't be true in reality" and you afford me the same respect and regard.
Nor will i (inaccurately) claim that views opinions and beliefs are "facts". Because i know the difference between facts and opinions views beliefs. i am sure that readers are getting quite a chuckle right about now, if not a full blown belly laugh, about a post claiming to know "facts" about resurrection of the dead and reincarnation. myself included.
The bolded is, perhaps, the most important thing you've ever posted. It is a concept that should be practiced.
I’ve had a “fundie” experience in my lifetime so I’m not exactly dumb on The Bible and basics of Christianity.
I will admit though I’m fuzzy on the other Major ones when it comes to what they preach about the afterlife.
That being said and I think this is my final opinion while both are probable, reincarnation makes more sense.
I mean if nothing else, don’t we if we are buried or ashes scattered etc come back as plants if nothing else because plants are living organisms anyway? Not trying to be funny here.
To only have 1 shot at life just seems too extreme. Like if one dies because of murder or a horrible cancer, it just seems like an unfair way to go out of your possibly 1 shot at life.
Or again if you went out (died) in a horrible fashion and because you didn’t accept Christ and you only had 1 chance (if there’s no reincarnation) to do it, now you’re going to burn and scream and cry in a pit of hell forever?
That while a foundation of The Christian faith from a neutral standpoint seems pretty demented frankly.
If one has ever seen (think Dennis Quaid was in it) A Dog’s Life, well, that movie didn’t seem like total fantasy when it comes to indirectly addressing the Reincarnation issue.
Thoughts?
Heaven and hell are what we make of this life right here and now. So yeah, there is plenty heaven and hell. Reincarnation is another chance to experience the life that you once caused to be heaven and hell, cease and desist, get the get out of jail card, and moksha - freedom.
Heaven and hell are what we make of this life right here and now. So yeah, there is plenty heaven and hell. Reincarnation is another chance to experience the life that you once caused to be heaven and hell, cease and desist, get the get out of jail card, and moksha - freedom.
How about we say that none of them truly makes sense. We have testimonies of both but is anyone really going to trust what people have to say when most are heavily biased in favor of what they are espousing? The Christians are especially bad at this because they have an agenda to get as many people converted to Jesus as they possibly can so their so-called NDE's are going to be 99% a testimony of having experienced hell and the devil and monsters and fire and torture and descriptions as bad as they can make it sound like this fellow:
These silly things usually end with "Don't end up in hell. Accept Jesus as your personal savior." Anyone going to try to convince me this idiot doesn't have an agenda? Silly to do when Jesus never even existed. He's just a myth.
i can assure you that just as your own Christian views and understanding make sense to you,
so too do my own Jewish views and understanding make sense to me.
and that is the topic of this thread, what makes more sense to you.
Resurrection of the dead is a core doctrine of Jewish theology. Similarly, reincarnation is is an integral part of Jewish belief that has always been around and is firmly rooted in source-verses. Now you know. So let's make a deal: i won't claim that your views opinions and beliefs "can't be true in reality" and you afford me the same respect and regard.
Nor will i (inaccurately) claim that views opinions and beliefs are "facts". Because i know the difference between facts and opinions views beliefs. i am sure that readers are getting quite a chuckle right about now, if not a full blown belly laugh, about a post claiming to know "facts" about resurrection of the dead and reincarnation. myself included.
Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is reincarnation taught. If you know of any 2nd Temple period Jewish literature outside of the Hebrew Bible, the time frame in which the Hebrew Bible was written, in which reincarnation is taught then please post it.
However, that isn't even the issue. For one thing I never said that Judaism didn't teach reincarnation. What I did say was that the concept of resurrection was a late teaching within Judaism and that one basis for the belief in resurrection was that because God is just, then for there to be justice for the Jews who suffered so much, he would have to raise them back to life.
Now, I gave my reason why reincarnation doesn't make sense and why it is not compatible with resurrection. Regardless of what a person, or what Judaism, or what Christianity believes, reality is whatever it is. Resurrection and reincarnation cannot both be true in the real world regardless of what any religious beliefs. It has to be one or the other for the reason I already gave. Or it's possible that neither one is true, again regardless of what anyone believes. Reality does not revolve around our beliefs. Now, does that sound like I claimed to know the facts about resurrection of the dead and reincarnation?
So if anyone is getting a full blown belly laugh at what I said then they don't understand what I said. You made an issue out of absolutely nothing.
I'm frankly not sure I can say any of them make sense. Maybe it's none of them. Perhaps it's something completely different than what we could know, understand, or convey, on this side.
While most are sticking with a few limited possibilities, I'm leaving it completely open and blank, to see what might come in; to see what I might pick up from the other side. And whatever it might be, I'm not going to run off and stick labels on it or put it in boxes. Plus, I'd probably just keep it to myself. And who's to say we each might have different results anyway?
Last edited by Thoreau424; 01-23-2023 at 03:42 PM..
There's no need to reincarnate. In the next world, we have our spirit body (with our soul encased therein) and all of our mental faculties and this includes all of our memories. If you want to know what the spirit world looks like - look around you inside and outside. From what I've read and believe - it's just as real there as it is here and that includes the spirits - who look just like mortals. Actually, as they progress, they become younger looking.
As to Hell, my belief is that it isn't eternal. All evil spirits will eventually have an awakening and Hell will be no more.
I'm afraid both concepts are equally incoherent to me, so I can't say either make the slightest bit of sense. But I know which one I find more repulsive: reincarnation. Endlessly living lives without even the benefit of remembering what you might have learned in previous ones? No. Just no. That is its own built-in hell, for everyone, basically forever given that everyone who believes that thinks it takes countless lives to be released from the cycle, and even then, only just maybe.
At least in the Christian system, assuming for the sake of argument it were true, there's a doable mechanism for staying out of hell.
Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is reincarnation taught. If you know of any 2nd Temple period Jewish literature outside of the Hebrew Bible, the time frame in which the Hebrew Bible was written, in which reincarnation is taught then please post it.
However, that isn't even the issue. For one thing I never said that Judaism didn't teach reincarnation. What I did say was that the concept of resurrection was a late teaching within Judaism and that one basis for the belief in resurrection was that because God is just, then for there to be justice for the Jews who suffered so much, he would have to raise them back to life.
Now, I gave my reason why reincarnation doesn't make sense and why it is not compatible with resurrection. Regardless of what a person, or what Judaism, or what Christianity believes, reality is whatever it is. Resurrection and reincarnation cannot both be true in the real world regardless of what any religious beliefs. It has to be one or the other for the reason I already gave. Or it's possible that neither one is true, again regardless of what anyone believes. Reality does not revolve around our beliefs. Now, does that sound like I claimed to know the facts about resurrection of the dead and reincarnation?
So if anyone is getting a full blown belly laugh at what I said then they don't understand what I said. You made an issue out of absolutely nothing.
Clearly both resurrection and reincarnation ARE compatible. In Judaism.
Also as stated earlier, your Christian views differ.
yes you clearly stated facts about reincarnation, here is verbatim quote from your post: "It is a fact that in Reality, forget religion, in reality either resurrection or reincarnation can be true, but not both."
However in my view, no religion or person is the arbiter or authority on what "reality" is for all of humanity. Just for what it is to them in their own life. Just like no religion is the arbiter or authority on what divinity is for all of humanity. Just for what it is to them in their own life. Beliefs are what a person believes to be true. I have just stated some of my beliefs. You are free to hold your own beliefs. That's what freedom of choice is, and that's what freedom of religion is. There are many paths to divinity, and many ways of understanding. Same for resurrection and reincarnation, many ways of understanding.
I have no intention to argue scripture with you because (a) it doesn't matter to me what you believe, and (b)Judaism does not proselytize and neither do I. However I will point out when there are gross inaccuracies stated about Judaism, as I have done here.
It appears to bother you that people hold different beliefs and views than your own.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-23-2023 at 08:35 PM..
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