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Devils believe in God, but that does not change their destiny.
Actually, the term believing is being misused.
If one believes in something they invest themselves happily.
If one merely entertains the possibility of existence, nothing is invested. no commitment either way.
Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is there is no middle ground concerning this issue where God is concerned. Either one is committed or they are not. John 3;16,17,18.
In fact, according to Jesus, to falsely call Him Lord, when his lordship is clearly not in them, is a lie God is obligated to punish. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
There is no room for phonies in heaven.
That's simply a Christian perspective, or one of them anyway, and really has nothing to do with the topic.
I wonder how true it is that "mostly nobody really cares what religion you are..."
Would be an interesting fact to confirm and/or quantify. I'm under the impression it makes quite a difference to a lot of people. How that difference is expressed or acted upon may be what next needs better definition perhaps, but I know many religious people will lean toward people of similar faith when it comes to marriage, business, associations, congregations, trust and social interactions.
It may be regional, as mensaguy pointed out. Sure, some people will gather with those of their own religion for religious purposes and even for marriage and such, but that doesn't mean they care in, say a business or social setting what religion other people are. Some people probably do, no doubt.
Even when I worked for Satmar Chasidim in Brooklyn, obviously a closed society that mostly interacts within itself socially and certainly for marriage, the employees were various forms of Christian (even the only Mar Thoma Christian I ever met!), Muslim, Hindu, etc., and we didn't worry about things like that when identifying subcontractors for a proposal. In the engineering world in particular, if you try to segregate yourself by religion or culture, you won't get too far.
So what actionable items, if any, it results in your day to day life when you feel the connection (on daily basis) with this higher power?
If I understand the question correctly, the action that allows me to feel connection is reading, I guess. There are books I read that make me feel so solemn inside. And sometimes situations happen, as if someone invisible helps me.
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Do you take any moral values from it? If yes, how? What's the mode of communication does this higher power use to send it's message to you?
My moral values lie in my own conscience. it can't never be wrong.
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Or connecting to this higher power does not effect in how do you spend your life?
I think you should always act according to your conscience.
Quote:
And also, what's the general belief of a life after death, in your spiritual world?
For me “religious” is having faith and devotion in an organized belief system based on doctrines, attitudes, rituals and observances around one or more deities.
Where as “spiritual” is based on a certitude not a faith. It is having a direct experience and relationship with
God/ higher power/ Oneness/ The Great Spirit/ Buddha nature or whatever word used tthat points to THAT.
How many times have you heard someone say that being in nature is the real “church” experience for them.
That is the direct experience without needing an intermediary guide such as a priest or guru — not saying guides aren’t valuable or needed sometimes on the path…..but often the nature experience can be a portal to God or what’s “spiritual” — not “religious.”
]These are GREAT thought-compelling questions Cardinal!!
I answered for my personal experience in bold — I apologize if I didn’t understand them correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
So what actionable items, if any, it results in your day to day life when you feel the connection (on daily basis) with this higher power? Actionable would be often a change in my attitude or behavior. Another would be a gasping, tears, even occasionally sobbing when the connection is so strongly sacred and divine it takes your breath away.
Do you take any moral values from it? If yes, how? What's the mode of communication does this higher power use to send it's message to you?
Yes - always moral values are highlighted — the mode of communication comes from a KNOWINGNESS that’s impossible to accurately describe. It is not thought or a voice but a sort of clear transmission that happens — let’s say I’m misbehaving over on the POC forum, and I get angry, even self righteous egoic feelings — in the background behind the mind and emotions there will be a KNOWINGNESS Happening — it wants me to sit with it and LOOK at what is going on. That’s where the moral value and spiritual growth happen. Too bad I’m so often stubborn and self willed — lol
When I ignore what’s happening in the “teaching” sometimes it’s feels really good to disobey — like when your dog won’t come when called — but down the road it feels like crap.
Or connecting to this higher power does not effect in how do you spend your life?
I believe My spiritual life and development is the main reason I’m here.
And also, what's the general belief of a life after death, in your spiritual world?
Had to pretty much just surrender to not getting to know EXACTLY what happens, but I know I go HOME — and have gained a lot of insights from the credible NDE stories and the details they bring back feel like contemporary gifts of getting to peek into the afterlife…..
Last edited by mountainrose; 11-18-2022 at 10:22 AM..
It may be regional, as mensaguy pointed out. Sure, some people will gather with those of their own religion for religious purposes and even for marriage and such, but that doesn't mean they care in, say a business or social setting what religion other people are. Some people probably do, no doubt.
Even when I worked for Satmar Chasidim in Brooklyn, obviously a closed society that mostly interacts within itself socially and certainly for marriage, the employees were various forms of Christian (even the only Mar Thoma Christian I ever met!), Muslim, Hindu, etc., and we didn't worry about things like that when identifying subcontractors for a proposal. In the engineering world in particular, if you try to segregate yourself by religion or culture, you won't get too far.
To whatever extent what we're discussing here is regional, I'd be curious to know what those demographics by region look like and how they translate into how much people care about the religion of other people. In my personal experience and as I have noted how this works with people here and all over the world, I'm of the opinion more than just "some people probably do," but one thing for sure, "some people do."
Can't say with any certainty how many, but whether a majority or a minority, I think too many...
For me “religious” is having faith and devotion in an organized belief system based on doctrines, attitudes, rituals and observances around one or more deities.
Where as “spiritual” is based on a certitude not a faith. It is having a direct experience and relationship with
God/ higher power/ Oneness/ The Great Spirit/ Buddha nature or whatever word used tthat points to THAT.
How many times have you heard someone say that being in nature is the real “church” experience for them.
That is the direct experience without needing an intermediary guide such as a priest or guru — not saying guides aren’t valuable or needed sometimes on the path…..but often the nature experience can be a portal to God or what’s “spiritual” — not “religious.”
I feel strongly that I have a "direct experience and relationship" with nature...
I'll not spend time explaining that experience and relationship but if I were to do so, I would not suggest anything religious or having to do with a god or spirituality. You are right about lots of people saying that being in nature is their "church." I've even said that in the past, but it's mostly to help religious people understand something about atheism (and human nature) that too often they don't seem to understand.
Why call that a church after all?
It's nature. Beautiful, wondrous, amazing, awe-inspiring, emotion invoking nature. No more and no less, but who needs more?
In general, I think a religious person who believes in God and religion, automatically is spiritual.
Belief in fantasies does not make one spiritual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
But how does “being spiritual without believing in God and religion”, work?
It works by grounding people which is the whole freaking point.
I can walk through the woods with my dog and derive joy from the beauty of it all; the fragrances from the trees, flowers, and plants, the sounds of insects, leaves rustling, birds singing, and chipmunks scampering through the underbrush and understand that I'm a part of the whole.
If I'm near the sea, I like to go there. I get that not everybody finds being submersed in warm waters to be calming and soothing, but I do. The skates come in to feed in the evening. The brush against me. I can latch on and they'll pull me through the water. They're very gentle. Sometimes the dolphins come in. I never had a chance to play with one. One of them stuck its head out of the water and grinned at me before swimming off. The Gulf sunsets are beautiful and, well, unique.
It's all very uplifting and far more uplifting than, "If you don't worship me, you're scummy and defective and I'll kill you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Those who consider themselves spiritual but not religious, do they believe in life after death?
That's oxymoronic.
Maybe one day you'll understand that the Greeks who had no freaking clue how the human body works and even less of a clue how the brain works invented the "soul" to explain why humans are conscious in a way that they could understand given their ignorance and limited knowledge of everything which is on a par with a 2-year old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
And what EXACTLY does it mean to be “spiritual” when you don’t believe in the existence God or in any religion?
I don't need any god-thing to be spiritual and people were spiritual long before people invented gods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Do you believe in soul?
If yes, what happens to the soul after death?
Nothing happens very slowly.
Try wrapping your brain around nothing unreal exists and everything that is real occupies space and time.
If I understand the question correctly, the action that allows me to feel connection is reading, I guess. There are books I read that make me feel so solemn inside. And sometimes situations happen, as if someone invisible helps me.
My moral values lie in my own conscience. it can't never be wrong.
I think you should always act according to your conscience.
That' s true. Only the body dies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
]These are GREAT thought-compelling questions Cardinal!!
I answered for my personal experience in bold — I apologize if I didn’t understand them correctly.
Actionable would be often a change in my attitude or behavior. Another would be a gasping, tears, even occasionally sobbing when the connection is so strongly sacred and divine it takes your breath away.
Yes - always moral values are highlighted — the mode of communication comes from a KNOWINGNESS that’s impossible to accurately describe. It is not thought or a voice but a sort of clear transmission that happens — let’s say I’m misbehaving over on the POC forum, and I get angry, even self righteous egoic feelings — in the background behind the mind and emotions there will be a KNOWINGNESS Happening — it wants me to sit with it and LOOK at what is going on. That’s where the moral value and spiritual growth happen. Too bad I’m so often stubborn and self willed — lol
When I ignore what’s happening in the “teaching” sometimes it’s feels really good to disobey — like when your dog won’t come when called — but down the road it feels like crap.
I believe My spiritual life and development is the main reason I’m here.
And also, what's the general belief of a life after death, in your spiritual world?
Had to pretty much just surrender to not getting to know EXACTLY what happens, but I know I go HOME — and have gained a lot of insights from the credible NDE stories and the details they bring back feel like contemporary gifts of getting to peek into the afterlife….
Thanks for replying.
So if I get the gist of it, what we are saying here is that spirituality is a direct connection with a high power. Call it God or Higher energy etc. And there is no need for a subscription to any organized Religion, it's God, and it's set of rules and boundaries.
And based on that connection, there could be some effects in your life
I hope I am correct so far?
Now, we know that we are all humans and we interact with fellow humans. And no one among us is an angle.
One time or another, we ALL have done mistakes in our lives where we have done something to another human or animal or nature, that was perhaps morally not approved and/or whatever wrong we did to someone else, is/was not punishable by law of the land. But it was still considered wrong by your inner voice.
Trust me, we ALL have done such stuff, intentionally or intentionally (so there is no point in denying). And that's what makes us humans - otherwise, we would angles.
So when a spiritual person who does not believe in an organized religion, it's God and it's moral values and it's rules, makes such a mistake, does he feel answerable or obligated to accountability in front of this higher power/energy/God that he feels directly connected with?
Some of you also feel that morality from this higher energy is also "felt" (and thus it could perhaps vary from practitioner to practitioner of spirituality?) - but then again, you can never live 100% in accord to this morality through the entire course of your life. Somewhere somehow, you WILL slip. We ALL have, no matter what moral values we believe in.
How do you feel obligated to this energy/God that passed a certain morality to you, but you didn't live by it 100%?
Is there a sense of accountability? Or everyone is "Going home" after death?
And if all spiritualist are "going home" then what's the point of this morality passed onto you guys by the God you felt directly connected with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Belief in fantasies does not make one spiritual.
It works by grounding people which is the whole freaking point.
I can walk through the woods with my dog and derive joy from the beauty of it all; the fragrances from the trees, flowers, and plants, the sounds of insects, leaves rustling, birds singing, and chipmunks scampering through the underbrush and understand that I'm a part of the whole.
If I'm near the sea, I like to go there. I get that not everybody finds being submersed in warm waters to be calming and soothing, but I do. The skates come in to feed in the evening. The brush against me. I can latch on and they'll pull me through the water. They're very gentle. Sometimes the dolphins come in. I never had a chance to play with one. One of them stuck its head out of the water and grinned at me before swimming off. The Gulf sunsets are beautiful and, well, unique.
It's all very uplifting and far more uplifting than, "If you don't worship me, you're scummy and defective and I'll kill you."
That's oxymoronic.
Maybe one day you'll understand that the Greeks who had no freaking clue how the human body works and even less of a clue how the brain works invented the "soul" to explain why humans are conscious in a way that they could understand given their ignorance and limited knowledge of everything which is on a par with a 2-year old.
I don't need any god-thing to be spiritual and people were spiritual long before people invented gods.
Nothing happens very slowly.
Try wrapping your brain around nothing unreal exists and everything that is real occupies space and time.
Not sure what to say but please read above. You perhaps don't even quality to be a spiritualist because you don't feel connected to God or a higher power, outside of religion. Do you?
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