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Is Star Trek's Khan evil? Or Sauron? Or the wicked Witches in the Wizard of Oz?
Saying God is evil is a short hand way of saying the god portrayed in the Bible is an evil monster.
We do not have to believe in the existence of a being to think of them as evil.
Did you really need that explaining?
That last question is always a hard one; when people pull this maneuver, I am never 100% sure if they know exactly what you meant and are just cynically trying to manufacture a straw man, or if their command of plain English is that awful. I tend to lean towards the former, though.
1. There is no scientific process that can prove either that a deity exists or that a deity does not exist. Scientists do not have access to anything other than the physical world.
2. Could it be that you believe that God is evil because YOU do not agree with what he did or prohibited?
3. Notice how the Atheists cheated in crafting the scientific method. They REQUIRED that all miracles must be treated as random chance. That is cheating to force their belief on everyone.
4. From my studies, I believe we have the best of all possible gods. Those who don't want something for themselves that God said NO to.
5. I have plenty of evidence that God is there. But there is no possible way of making that proof accessible to others.
3. Notice how the Atheists cheated in crafting the scientific method. They REQUIRED that all miracles must be treated as random chance. That is cheating to force their belief on everyone.
A few points here. "The atheists" did not en masse conspire to anything. We aren't an organization or a religion. Getting ten atheists to agree on something apart from whether they believe in at least one god or not, is like herding cats. In addition ... MANY believers / theists are scientists and follow the scientific method. Further: nothing in the scientific method requires that miracles be "treated as random chance". Where did you get such an idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
4. From my studies, I believe we have the best of all possible gods. Those who don't want something for themselves that God said NO to.
There are many reasons people lack belief in your god of choice and rebellion or a desire to be licentious is WAY down the very long list -- to the point that it generally doesn't apply. Most atheists conduct themselves in a manner entirely compatible with Christian morality. We are faithful to our spouses, pay our debts and taxes, refrain from theft and violence, and help old ladies cross the street. Stop listening to campfire stories about atheist plots and atheist rebellion and caricatures of atheists. We are just the people next door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
5. I have plenty of evidence that God is there. But there is no possible way of making that proof accessible to others.
Personal experience is potentially useful to the experiencer, but you are correct ... it is useless for anyone else and personal, non-intersubjective experience is not even a very god source of data for you -- especially given that we know very well that the brain is not some kind of precision instrument. Absent a good understanding of logical fallacies and a devotion to rationality and logic, human mentation impresses us with all sorts of internal experiences that are very misleading.
But that is exactly what the Bible promotes -- disparage thinking or reasoning (or at least any thinking that doesn't 110% agree with your dogma of choice) and laud blind faith and the acceptance of unevidenced claims as truth.
A few points here. "The atheists" did not en masse conspire to anything. We aren't an organization or a religion. Getting ten atheists to agree on something apart from whether they believe in at least one god or not, is like herding cats. In addition ... MANY believers / theists are scientists and follow the scientific method. Further: nothing in the scientific method requires that miracles be "treated as random chance". Where did you get such an idea?
There are many reasons people lack belief in your god of choice and rebellion or a desire to be licentious is WAY down the very long list -- to the point that it generally doesn't apply. Most atheists conduct themselves in a manner entirely compatible with Christian morality. We are faithful to our spouses, pay our debts and taxes, refrain from theft and violence, and help old ladies cross the street. Stop listening to campfire stories about atheist plots and atheist rebellion and caricatures of atheists. We are just the people next door.
Personal experience is potentially useful to the experiencer, but you are correct ... it is useless for anyone else and personal, non-intersubjective experience is not even a very god source of data for you -- especially given that we know very well that the brain is not some kind of precision instrument. Absent a good understanding of logical fallacies and a devotion to rationality and logic, human mentation impresses us with all sorts of internal experiences that are very misleading.
But that is exactly what the Bible promotes -- disparage thinking or reasoning (or at least any thinking that doesn't 110% agree with your dogma of choice) and laud blind faith and the acceptance of unevidenced claims as truth.
I don't know where he gets the "random chance" thing is the scientific method. Funny, all those geology, astronomy, and meteorology/climate courses I took in my major and taught myself for 13 years..."random chance" was never part of the thinking.
1. There is no scientific process that can prove either that a deity exists or that a deity does not exist. Scientists do not have access to anything other than the physical world.
Neither do religious people. But what we do know means that using logic and mathematics, we do not need a god to explain why we exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
2. Could it be that you believe that God is evil because YOU do not agree with what he did or prohibited?
No, it is because what the god does in the bible is evil, and if you followed several of the OT laws, you would go to prison because those laws are evil. If that is your god, then that god would be evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
3. Notice how the Atheists cheated in crafting the scientific method. They REQUIRED that all miracles must be treated as random chance. That is cheating to force their belief on everyone.
The scientific method was created by religious people, and many scientists are (and have been) religious. Miracles are treated with suspicion because naturalism explains alleged miracles better. That is why the conclusion of science is naturalism, because that is where the evidence goes, even for religious people.
You know, even those religious scientists trying to force atheism on to others?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
4. From my studies, I believe we have the best of all possible gods. Those who don't want something for themselves that God said NO to.
Considering you points here, your studies are irrational.
And the studies of other people lead to different gods. Have you asked yourself why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
5. I have plenty of evidence that God is there. But there is no possible way of making that proof accessible to others.
Then that 'proof' would be your opinion, not evidence.
I don't know where he gets the "random chance" thing is the scientific method. Funny, all those geology, astronomy, and meteorology/climate courses I took in my major and taught myself for 13 years..."random chance" was never part of the thinking.
2. Could it be that you believe that God is evil because YOU do not agree with what he did or prohibited?
4. From my studies, I believe we have the best of all possible gods. Those who don't want something for themselves that God said NO to.
#2. Well yes, I don't agree to things that God did that were evil. For instance, God killed his fair share of unborn children... why can't we? Heck, he even killed the unborn children's mothers too in order to keep them from being born.
#4. I'm not sure what "the best of all possible gods" might mean exactly. But it would at least be nice if your God would be consistent. At first he said "NO" to shrimp and cheeseburgers... and then apparently later he changed his mind.
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Miracles are treated with suspicion because naturalism explains alleged miracles better. That is why the conclusion of science is naturalism, because that is where the evidence goes, even for religious people.
