What do you think of the term.. Religious Indoctrination

[Amazing Moves]

Fantastic discussion so far. Keep it coming.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by bUU

A distinction without sufficient difference to warrant mentioning. I'll accept your amendment as friendly and just move on.

Of course it's friendly.

I don't think parenting (or at least healthy parenting) has subjugation as its objective. I can testify from first hand observation of one parenting situation I'm aware of, that parenting that objectifies children like that is disturbingly unhealthy and dysfunctional and sends terrible messages of worthlessness and unworthiness through chronic disacknowledgement of the child's feelings and experiences and needs -- and, in the extreme, setting up situations where the child can never win approval. That is why I would not use the pejorative "master/slave" as if it's somehow inherent to parenting or inherent in the necessity that parents of young children often resort to "because I said so". The latter really is just another way of saying "because I'm responsible and knowledgable about this and you aren't" which is actually true in that context.

But I agree, it's pointless to argue technicalities here. The salient point is that religion does indoctrinate children and aspects of that are, by turns, innocuous, suboptimal and downright harmful. But it is the content and the message that is the problem. I can't claim that atheist parents don't in any way indoctrinate their children, only that they have better motives and reasons for WHAT they indoctrinate them WITH.

[bUU]

Originally Posted by mordant

I don't think parenting (or at least healthy parenting) has subjugation as its objective.

If you ask many parents who feel strongly about instilling in their children their own personal religious values you'll hear them express an aversion to their children forming their own, perhaps different, beliefs and values. They'll talk about how children need to be led to the right path in a manner that precludes the child's personal revelation that may conflict with their own. They want to make their children "love God so much" that their faith would never waver (i.e., when confronted with truths and realities that would tend to prompt otherwise reasonable people to question, to form their own thoughts, etc.) Remember: I said "many" not necessarily "most" and surely not "all". But "many".

I see this most clearly from the receiving end of the eventual reaction to that indoctrination. It is chilling sometimes to hear people talk about how boxed in they were.

And it isn't always parents - remember the parents were indoctrinated as well. Society itself has institutionalized this subjugation aspect going back hundreds upon hundreds of years. It is actually only in the last three hundred years that the tide has turned away from such subjugation. It will take perhaps another hundred years before the impact dissipates entirely. That is, unless a reactionary revolution regresses society's progress in that regard.

Originally Posted by mordant

But it is the content and the message that is the problem. I can't claim that atheist parents don't in any way indoctrinate their children, only that they have better motives and reasons for WHAT they indoctrinate them WITH.

We believe the message needs to be enabling rather than subjugating: "I decided to believe this. These people decided to believe that. Those other people decided to believe this other thing. Now you get to learn about all of them and learn about the nature of belief in general, so you can make the best decision for yourself, now and all through your life."

[old_cold]

I think even in casually religious families, it is just a 'taken for granted' idea in the same way as it's taken for granted idea that you eat breakfast in the morning, go to bed at night, to school Monday through Friday and to church on Sunday and that Christmas is Jesus' birthday, that several churches in every town is standard and that's where weddings and funerals are and that 'everybody' lives that way.
Even for non-regular church goers, it's still the norm for children to be surrounded by god and Jesus "stuff".