Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Doctor Bill Winston, who packs 'em in every Sunday. His credentials?
Pastor Winston received his Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters from Friends International Christian University. I looked up the credentials of this austere organization and, wonder of wonders, it has none. In an academic sense at any rate; none of their course generate any cross-credits with literally any credible educational institution.
But enough on "Doctor" Winston, OK? Next: "Dr." Kent Hovind
"Doctor" Hovind?
"In 1971, he graduated from East Peoria Community High School in East Peoria, Illinois. From 1972 to 1974, Hovind attended the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College and received a Bachelor of Religious Education.[2]
In 1988 and 1991 respectively, Hovind was awarded a master's degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the non-accredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (now Patriot Bible University in Del Norte, Colorado, which no longer offers this program).[9] Having a website called "Dr. Dino" has provoked some academics to look closely at how Hovind presents his education and credentials.
Chemistry professor Dr. Karen Bartelt has said that it is "very unusual for a person with a Ph.D., even a real one, to list oneself in the phonebook as "Dr Hovind", as Hovind has done."
"Doctor" Carl Baugh?
"Although questions have been raised before about Baugh's science degrees, even Baugh's claimed theology degrees appear overstated. The theology degree most frequently claimed by Baugh is a " Doctor of Philosophy in Theology from the California Graduate School of Theology (CGST)"
Baugh described this as an "earned degree" (implying normal course work and graduation). However, a former close associate of Baugh's stated that the degree was "not real, but honorary". More significantly, a dean of the school reports that according to school records, Baugh never attended the school nor received any credential from it--honorary or otherwise."
"Doctor" Henry Morris, founding head of The Institute for Creation Research. Here's his stunnnig scholastic background, and I also note how up to date it is...
"Morris received his B.Sc. in civil engineering from Rice University (1939), and earned a master's degree in hydraulics (1948) and a Ph.D. in hydraulic engineering (1950),"
And so on. These are just some of the more famous of this den of iniquitous and ill-educated thieves and liars. Since so many bleeting-sheeple-theists fawningly make faith with these guys and thus become their willing subordinates (as with the now long-gone Dr. Jim Bakker and his ever-fawning wife Tammy Faye!..)
In the final analysis, yah just gottz-tah luve 'em for their vast academic credentials, don't you? One imagines a weekly, if not nightly, conference call during which the bigger troublesome spiritual quandaries and questions of the day, those that came in via the Internet, e-mail, postcard or voicemail, from honestly inquisitive patrons [all bearing Visa™ Card donations of course...] are somberly discussed and resolved with the firm but "Doctorly" hand of God™ in the room, huh?
And... yup-siree-Bob, furshur; they'z shure a lot mohr cred-uh-bull than, for example...
Doctors Dawkins and Hawking, Stephen Gregory, David Arnett, Philip Armitage, Arnab Choudhuri, James van Allen, and of course the indisputable, oh-so-convincing and erudite Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson (whom I dare any of the sheeple masses here to take on!)
Heck: I'll let you types even take on the esteemable Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson on with a team of, say, 4 of your "best" pseudo-educated bleatophilic types. This has, of course been tried time and again, with 100% predictable results: with the Great And Golden Christian Ship of State rolling over just like the unsinkable Bismark...
Starting with this shamry of the basic lack of the anti-science beginner's intellect:
So... all hail and Praise The Real Doctors, for they shall persevere with "original research" that constantly, actually and exponentially expands our sphere of incontrovertible knowledge!
I agree with you, rifleman. The people listed are nothing more than conmen leading a bunch of bleating sheep to a pretty useless and pathetic slaughter of intellect and knowledge. As someone who is a bit defensive, though, of not having a degree of my own to speak of, I would like to point out that one has to be careful at the angle we scrutinize these conmen from. This has far less to do with their lack of an adequate degree to claim "professionalism" or overt knowledge in a course of study than it has to do with their obvious circumvention of the normal rigor and depth of college to pass themselves off as subject experts.
If an old lady finds her car broken down and decides she's going to find a good auto mechanic, there could be plenty of them around. The shop up the street who hires nothing but ASE Certified mechanics might be a good place to start. But, Billy Bob the kid who lives a few doors down could also be a brilliant but non-credentialed mechanic. However, the guy across the street who insists he could cast a spell on her vehicle and make it work, and, oh look, he's credentialed through the International Society of Auto-Fixer Uppers and Spell Casting Network... seems a little suspicious.
Obsession: an intense desire to get at the truth, despite obstacles. A characteristic of the truly brave....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
I feel sorry for you. I'm not sure if something happened to you as a child that caused you to hate religion or what....but wow, you ought to talk to someone. It's becoming an obsession.
It is indeed an obsession, Vizio, since I (and many other objective researchers visiting these pages) have correctly determined that the amazingly empty-headed mindsets of fundamentalist Christians are both troubling and of a measurable danger to our always culturally-evolving (small "e"; don't get your undies in a knot...) society.
Since Christianity would love to subjugate all of the world's citizens to an absolutist Godly entity's strangle-hold, with literally no room for any inquisitiveness nor questioning, it is truly dangerous.
You think I'm paranoid? Why then have we who have chosen alternate, or even no... faith been historically graced with the stain of ex-communications, Joan-of-Arc type public incinerations and/or floggings, Hitlerian Holocausts, Stalinesque mass murders, ostracizations and discriminations by too many churches to count, and even the most recent (1988) determinations by The Southern Baptist Convention on the necessity for wives to be subgujants to their husbands' every whim?
(from which I'll drop this short paragraph in... think of it as color commentary, OK?):
"In the 1998 convention they revised the Baptist Faith and Message to state that wives must submit to their husbands. In 2000, they passed rules to prevent women from serving as pastor. This has put them out of step with most Protestant denominations.:
"A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation."
That part's pretty much inarguable by you, because you prove it with your adamant refusal to answer even the most basic Yes/No questions in an honest and adjudicated debating format. In fact, even your combative response here is right on cue! In other words, there must be something wrong with me, right?
As for "talking to somebody", I tried that once, with both my youth and later, my senior pastors.
As I have explained to all here several times: when I was about 17 or so and a devout and practicing Christian kid, I started to visualize my natural inquisitiveness and curiosity. Seems that some are born with that attitude (and thus become medical doctors, engineers, scientists, astronomers, nuclear physicists, astronauts, and so on... with no particular trembling fear of new answers to unsolved questions).
But some sub-species members, present company possibly included I'd add, obviously Evolved along a somewhat different lineage, their cranial-neurological organization being a tad bit different than mine.
That type are absolutely not naturally inquisitive nor curious. They seemingly prefer to have others do all their thinking about complex concepts or things that fly in the face of ancient and obtuse fairy-tales.
Anyhow, for my intellectual maturation over the subsequent 8 - 10 years until I was about 27 or so, I became an adult with anadvanced and very broad-based education in a number of varying sciences and engineering, including global geology, genetics and mammalogy (which also happened to expose me to a number of dinosaurian fossils from the Canadian Arctic, where the oldest exposed rock formations on this planet have been found and documented...),.
But at the same time, I would never forget the hostile responses to the honest and polite questions posed to my youth and later senior church pastors, which were aggressively deflected (A-Ha! Why didn't I see it then, eh? And why does this not surprise me now? Hmmm... I shoulda known, huh? Even then, the pastors had their deflections down to a fine art! )
"Harrumphhh! How dare you, young man! Such questions are impertinent to our Lord! Don't ask them again!"
OK, I won't. Now that I know you guys can't answer them. Couldn't then, sure can't now.
So yup; it is an obsession, based on getting you guys, just once, to even discuss and then admit that the truth really scares the Be-Jessus out of you, and therefore you can't face having ANY complex questions asked about the gaping holes in your life's belief system.
I get it. But thanks for playing, Vizio. I see no spiritual nor intellectual help for you, frankly, since you've pretty much painted yourself into that inescapable corner. Good luck with that one, Viz me boy!
I agree with you, rifleman. The people listed are nothing more than conmen leading a bunch of bleating sheep to a pretty useless and pathetic slaughter of intellect and knowledge.
As someone who is a bit defensive, though, of not having a degree of my own to speak of, I would like to point out that one has to be careful at the angle we scrutinize these conmen from.
I'm going to go one further here, Troop: your obviously hugely superior command of the language of inerrant logic and common sense, and of your clearly high-level understanding of a wide range of things both natural, complex and cutting-edge, tells me that you are a voracious reader and consumer of knowledge.
FurShur, Troop, I'd peg you as a reader of such journals as Popular Science, Discover, Science, National Geographic, Nature, and many others, not to mention periodicals relating to your own special areas of interest of high level aero-tech electronics, diagnosis and repair (which obviously requires a naturally logic-oriented and step-wise mindset)
By comparison, there are far too many dishonest Christians venting here who take one of two equally dishonest and obfuscatory paths to their own evils:
1) They either go through their university experiences simply to attain a set of letters (see my other thread about the various Christian "Doctors without Degrees..") which they feel grants them some advanced level of dispensative authority with which they can then frivolously debunk everything that others (those with actual proven and accredited degrees...) have previously clearly demonstrated, or...
2) those who ingeniously create their own imaginary Doctoral Degrees (who, after all, would stop at a mere Master's? If you'ze a'gonna lie, why not go for The Big One? It's the Christian Sinner's Thing to do, after all!)
By the powers invested in me by my Alma Mater, I'm thusly and herein going to grant you temporary but full-on usage of one of my Master's of Science degrees, in absentia, (after all, how many can I use at once, eh?) but with the full authority granted to me to do with it just whatever I choose to! Set fire to it if I so choose!
(FYI: for your understanding, it is a Master's in advanced/applied science with a sub- in entomology, and another in the genetics of Evolution. Unless you'd rather use the one in geology or bio-toxicology? Just in case one of these Christian fakeristás tries you on, you can then easily dissemble them!)
And of course, pending your own achievements at a VERY notable Eastern Technical Institute with impreccable credentials [eat your hearts out, PECLs (Pseudo-Educated Christian Liars!], this is truly where our boy's taken up residence, folks! Let's hear it! An extra-large cheer for Troop!...
Troop, you have literally nothing to ever feel defensive about in the face of these proven pikers, Troop. Quite the opposite, truth be known! Trust me.
Doctor Bill Winston, who packs 'em in every Sunday. His credentials?
Pastor Winston received his Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters from Friends International Christian University. I looked up the credentials of this austere organization and, wonder of wonders, it has none. In an academic sense at any rate; none of their course generate any cross-credits with literally any credible educational institution.
But enough on "Doctor" Winston, OK? Next: "Dr." Kent Hovind
"Doctor" Hovind?
"In 1971, he graduated from East Peoria Community High School in East Peoria, Illinois. From 1972 to 1974, Hovind attended the non-accredited Midwestern Baptist College and received a Bachelor of Religious Education.[2]
In 1988 and 1991 respectively, Hovind was awarded a master's degree and doctorate in Christian Education through correspondence from the non-accredited Patriot University in Colorado Springs, Colorado (now Patriot Bible University in Del Norte, Colorado, which no longer offers this program).[9] Having a website called "Dr. Dino" has provoked some academics to look closely at how Hovind presents his education and credentials.
Chemistry professor Dr. Karen Bartelt has said that it is "very unusual for a person with a Ph.D., even a real one, to list oneself in the phonebook as "Dr Hovind", as Hovind has done."
"Doctor" Carl Baugh?
"Although questions have been raised before about Baugh's science degrees, even Baugh's claimed theology degrees appear overstated. The theology degree most frequently claimed by Baugh is a " Doctor of Philosophy in Theology from the California Graduate School of Theology (CGST)"
Baugh described this as an "earned degree" (implying normal course work and graduation). However, a former close associate of Baugh's stated that the degree was "not real, but honorary". More significantly, a dean of the school reports that according to school records, Baugh never attended the school nor received any credential from it--honorary or otherwise."
"Doctor" Henry Morris, founding head of The Institute for Creation Research. Here's his stunnnig scholastic background, and I also note how up to date it is...
"Morris received his B.Sc. in civil engineering from Rice University (1939), and earned a master's degree in hydraulics (1948) and a Ph.D. in hydraulic engineering (1950),"
And so on. These are just some of the more famous of this den of iniquitous and ill-educated thieves and liars. Since so many bleeting-sheeple-theists fawningly make faith with these guys and thus become their willing subordinates (as with the now long-gone Dr. Jim Bakker and his ever-fawning wife Tammy Faye!..)
In the final analysis, yah just gottz-tah luve 'em for their vast academic credentials, don't you? One imagines a weekly, if not nightly, conference call during which the bigger troublesome spiritual quandaries and questions of the day, those that came in via the Internet, e-mail, postcard or voicemail, from honestly inquisitive patrons [all bearing Visa™ Card donations of course...] are somberly discussed and resolved with the firm but "Doctorly" hand of God™ in the room, huh?
And... yup-siree-Bob, furshur; they'z shure a lot mohr cred-uh-bull than, for example...
Doctors Dawkins and Hawking, Stephen Gregory, David Arnett, Philip Armitage, Arnab Choudhuri, James van Allen, and of course the indisputable, oh-so-convincing and erudite Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson (whom I dare any of the sheeple masses here to take on!)
Heck: I'll let you types even take on the esteemable Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson on with a team of, say, 4 of your "best" pseudo-educated bleatophilic types. This has, of course been tried time and again, with 100% predictable results: with the Great And Golden Christian Ship of State rolling over just like the unsinkable Bismark...
Starting with this shamry of the basic lack of the anti-science beginner's intellect:
So... all hail and Praise The Real Doctors, for they shall persevere with "original research" that constantly, actually and exponentially expands our sphere of incontrovertible knowledge!
Rifle...people know what they know, and train however they train to acquire that knowledge.
That some of that training for some of those people traditionally includes getting certificates upon the completion of the training that then proclaims them to be a "Dr'" of that field or disipline means nothing except that that particular training included that "paper" that said that on it.
I'm not impressed by "titles", "awards", "certificates", or "degrees" of any kind that "designate" someone to be something. What they KNOW as respects their chosen field is what they know...."titles" designated on a certificate aside.
See, what some don't "get"...is that the mindset of another as to how the universe came to be, or any other such matter...does not determine ones quality of character...which should be the only basis on which a person is assessed.
And that one can point to others that share the same bias and intolerance headtrips they do, doesn't then make it okay to have them...it just demonstrates that there are others that need to "lose their prejudice" as well.
If subscription to religious dogma...or concepts that lead one to believe in the existence of a "God", "Creator", "Great Spirit", "First Cause/Source Entity", "Higher Power", etc, was a reasonable basis to determine people as "messed up in the head"...98% of the people that have ever lived would be considered that by the other 2%.
Got a "Reality Check" for N. Tyson, and his ilk: This very minute, even in 2013, there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of people living very primitively and haven't a clue about any technical scientific knowledge. Furthermore, most of the people that have ever existed, and many still today, have never had even a second of formal education and were/are completely illiterate, and they also believe(d) in God(s). They still breath in and out and live their lives like everyone does.
I SUBMIT: The lives of the most brilliant scientists and gifted scholars were/are of no greater worth in the ways that really matter to this universe than any of the most intellectually primitive.
Of course, it goes BOTH WAYS---It is the one...who is SO ARROGANT that they feel their belief in religious concepts, or knowledge of scientific theories, is in any way a basis to disrespect those who know less or don't agree with them...whose personal stock value is diminished.
It is indeed an obsession, Vizio, since I (and many other objective researchers visiting these pages) have correctly determined that the amazingly empty-headed mindsets of fundamentalist Christians are both troubling and of a measurable danger to our always culturally-evolving (small "e"; don't get your undies in a knot...) society.
Are you that blind that you can't see past the end of your own nose? You self-righteously proclaim that we are all a bunch of blathering idiots and without the all-knowing rifleman we're destined to languish in our own stupidity. Wow....I'm so happy that you're here to rescue us! You're so smart!!!!!!!
I see the OP pointing out the usage or misuse of Honorary, fraudulent or unrelated Ph.Ds as academic achievement to over inflate ones ability as a theologian or religious professional.
I agree when one sees alleged Religious Clergy flaunting the title Dr or Ph.D it is often misleading.
One should investigate the source of that title as it seems that too often the Ph.D means PHrauD (a poor spelling of fraud) or the misuse of an unrelated profession to give the impression of expertize were none exists.
I agree with the OP that it is a tool of charlatans and that Clergy who use such should be pointed out as the frauds they are.
A secondary factor is that clergy who resort to such are demeaning those who have earned true academic Ph.Ds; they have devalued the Title using it as a label with no academic achievement.
You could have fooled me...If you hate people who use god to justify their bigotry, then why do you do just that? That is more than a bit hypocritical don't you think?
I don't. Why do you use hatred of religion to justify your bigotry?
I don't. Why do you use hatred of religion to justify your bigotry?
First of all I do not hate religion. Secondly, it is not bigotry to refute uneducated, and ignorant bigoted statements such as you constantly make...You really should learn to MYOB.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Obsession: an intense desire to get at the truth, despite obstacles. A characteristic of the truly brave....
Why didn't I see it then, eh? And why does this not surprise me now? Hmmm... I shoulda known, huh? Even then, the pastors had their deflections down to a fine art! ) 
