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Old 05-18-2018, 12:20 AM
 
555 posts, read 502,611 times
Reputation: 1488

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
First of all, there were protests in May of 2009. They weren't as large because state employees (including teachers) understood that the GREAT RECESSION and resulting shortfall were something the governor could not help. But after the next election, the NCGA began to directly target teachers by taking away master's pay, longevity pay, and continuing contracts. We can see exactly what they're doing and why. We have dedicated our lives to public education, and we're standing up to say - no more.
Has overall teacher pay, on average, increased since 2009, or has it not. I hear you on the change in pay for a master's degree, but some of that is change in structure for compensation vs change in overall pay. I believe overall pay has increased. Not saying it isn't deserved, not saying more can't be done. But playing the part of the victim in the way some of this messaging comes across is what rubs people the wrong way.

One decision in education that was made by the legislature in power circa 2009 that I HATED is that high-achieveing high school students who could take college courses in high school no longer got to do so for free (which had been the case prior to that, and is still the case in many other states, during and post-recession). That was a horrible "money-saving" measure (the reality is that it was not big annual cost) that clearly sent a message that if you were wealthy enough and high-achieving, you could take advantage of early college (because the price tag of college is less likely to be a factor). But if you were poor (and in NC, that means more likely a minority), but worked hard enough to accomplish such a thing -- sorry, another door to completing a college degree closed in your face. It was a truly terrible decision and enacted quietly... No outrage from anywhere.

So spare me the "the current administration targets/hates education" line. This type of thing has been happening for a long time in NC.

 
Old 05-18-2018, 10:06 AM
 
57 posts, read 47,370 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpains29 View Post
If you were right, then rural areas in NC wouldn't have any problems recruiting teachers.


Program will increase pay for new teachers in some rural NC counties | News & Observer


"Program leaders hope the initiative will help ease a teacher shortage in rural North Carolina school districts. The Johnston County system in the Triangle is short 18 teachers this year, and 32 percent of new hires last year were from out of state. Cabarrus County near Charlotte needs 13 more teachers, and Onslow County in the eastern part of the state needs 28."
And how many of those out of state hires are new teachers? And how many of them will stay in those rural school districts for more than a year or two?
 
Old 05-20-2018, 05:38 AM
 
2,844 posts, read 2,984,407 times
Reputation: 3529
California teachers are the 5th highest paid in the nation, but California students rank 46th in math and 49th in reading
 
Old 05-20-2018, 07:58 AM
 
13,811 posts, read 27,489,188 times
Reputation: 14250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hey_guy View Post
California teachers are the 5th highest paid in the nation, but California students rank 46th in math and 49th in reading
...and also have a ton of students that don't speak much English.

Hard to compare without delving into the details.
 
Old 05-20-2018, 08:24 AM
 
2,844 posts, read 2,984,407 times
Reputation: 3529
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
...and also have a ton of students that don't speak much English.

Hard to compare without delving into the details.
No more money means better education without qualifications
 
Old 05-20-2018, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
1,683 posts, read 3,453,020 times
Reputation: 2234
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedLife View Post
Has overall teacher pay, on average, increased since 2009, or has it not. I hear you on the change in pay for a master's degree, but some of that is change in structure for compensation vs change in overall pay. I believe overall pay has increased. Not saying it isn't deserved, not saying more can't be done. But playing the part of the victim in the way some of this messaging comes across is what rubs people the wrong way.

One decision in education that was made by the legislature in power circa 2009 that I HATED is that high-achieveing high school students who could take college courses in high school no longer got to do so for free (which had been the case prior to that, and is still the case in many other states, during and post-recession). That was a horrible "money-saving" measure (the reality is that it was not big annual cost) that clearly sent a message that if you were wealthy enough and high-achieving, you could take advantage of early college (because the price tag of college is less likely to be a factor). But if you were poor (and in NC, that means more likely a minority), but worked hard enough to accomplish such a thing -- sorry, another door to completing a college degree closed in your face. It was a truly terrible decision and enacted quietly... No outrage from anywhere.
.
The answer is no. If you account for removing longevity pay (and giving it back as a "raise"), pay for increased education, inflation...no. Purchasing power is lower now than before the Great Recession. And older teachers were more likely to stay, temporarily inflating the average. Younger teachers got out. So it's a function of who's still doing it (right now) and not so much the pay structure itself.

There are a lot of pages here, but I have said before that I have not personally suffered. I'm not a victim. But I can see what's happening to the teacher pipeline and what will happen to the quality of public schools if these policies (including others that drain public funds away from public schools) continue. I'm concerned about public education in NC as well as its effect on out economy and the companies who create jobs here. It can be hard for someone on the outside to separate a person's personal financial concerns from their concerns about what they love, live and breath, and have dedicated their professional lives to.

Also, early colleges and Career & College Promise | NC Community Colleges.
 
Old 05-20-2018, 06:02 PM
rfb
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,594 posts, read 6,365,917 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
...and also have a ton of students that don't speak much English.

Hard to compare without delving into the details.
I think that is part of the issue. You can't point to funding issues without first identifying the underlying problem. More money doesn't necessarily solve the problem, though it may (and IMO will help).
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