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The average electric vehicle supporter simply looks at the back of their car and notices there is not exhaust coming out of it. Therefore, the climate won’t change anymore. If only the rest of us heathens could see the lack of exhaust on a vehicle, and how the planet desperately needs these yucky emissions to go away, it’s what I like to call a small picture thinking . How their electric vehicle got there in the first place is completely lost on them. they simply went to a dealership, bought/leased their electric vehicle and it spontaneously existed. Idealistic ideologues imposing their small picture thinking upon society. If the experiment doesn’t work, at least they have experienced short term emotional fulfillment and that’s all that matters in the end.
The average electric vehicle supporter simply looks at the back of their car and notices there is not exhaust coming out of it. Therefore, the climate won’t change anymore. If only the rest of us heathens could see the lack of exhaust on a vehicle, and how the planet desperately needs these yucky emissions to go away, it’s what I like to call a small picture thinking . How their electric vehicle got there in the first place is completely lost on them. they simply went to a dealership, bought/leased their electric vehicle and it spontaneously existed. Idealistic ideologues imposing their small picture thinking upon society. If the experiment doesn’t work, at least they have experienced short term emotional fulfillment and that’s all that matters in the end.
Most people are that way with most of the products they buy. They see the finished product and don't realize the inputs needed for it to be ready for them to buy. That stretched from your example of an EV to toys to food. Damned near everything.
Just like the Congressman who wanted to defund NOAA several years ago because The Weather Channel could be used to get weather forecasts.
Despite EVs getting caught up in yet another US culture war, the train keeps moving and our pettiness won't stop it. The question is will it drag us along behind, or will we keep doing what we need to do to try and capture the manufacturing lead that China has taken and is determined to keep. Judging on how unfocused, backwards looking and shortsited we are as a nation, we will screw it up.
You might not know if it you live in the United States where anti-EV fervor is rampant, but the EV revolution is alive and well in many parts of the world. In those places, it has zoomed past the 5% of sales mark that is commonly understood to be an important milestone on the so-called S curve. If you are not familiar with the term S curve, here’s a primer.
If I had to venture a guess, the deadline for the EV standards will be delayed over and over, and then there will be exceptions added. Eventually it will simply turn into a somewhat stronger incentive for EV adoption than what exists today, or possibly a transition to a mix of EV's and plug-in hybrids.
We bought the first Lexus hybrid 16 years ago — the hybrid battery is still going strong. We mostly get 30 MPG. This iseems a better alternative and compromise until we get the EV technology and charging infrastructure more sophisticated.
Many former EV owners, and those interested in EVs, are opting for hybrids, including plug-in hybrids. Sales of both hybrids and plug-in hybrids are surging. The plug-in hybrid is dipping the toe in the water for an owner leery of going full EV. A plug-in hybrid allows someone to evaluate their actual real-world needs on a daily basis.
I commute less than 20 miles per day during the week. However, I drive 350 to 400 miles on the weekend to a location with zero EV infrastructure. If I was considering a new vehicle other than an ICE as my sole vehicle to meet all my needs a hybrid or plug-in hybrid would be the only realistic option for me.
the difference between EV's and ICE at this point is infrastructure.
We built infrastructure for cars and we even had the government give cities money to build highways for cares ( as opposed to Public transportation), we widened streets, knocked down buildings, we built parking lots/garages . We made owning a car in general the standard.
for EV's to work, It needs to be explained to people that it removes our dependency on foreign oil.
Then, it needs to be explained how its cheaper, and finally, the push to make it viable with accessibility via charging stations and home chargers built-in
Per what I highlighted, you illustrate the struggle for any new tech that is preferable politically, but not economically and individually. People need to have the "why" and "how" of EV tech explained to them as a precursor to government force and coercion being applied to them to artificially adopt EV tech before they would do so naturally or voluntarily. This goes to my original point - any new technology that is an overall better value proposition than a current technology will not require explanation, government force/coercion, virtue signaling scolds from early adopters and niche market fans, etc. The market will naturally adopt it without any of that.
The technological maturity and infrastructure required to make an EV a better "ho hum" ubiquitous choice over the ICE we all know simply doesn't currently exist. Because of this, we constantly have EV "explained to us" in order to make us believe that a hypothetical utopian future is right around the corner if we would all just submit and adopt whatever tech the government commands.
I have no quarrel with a new tech, and will happily adopt it once it is better value across most/all measures. EV tech will be no different to me than cassettes, CDs, wi-fi, smart phones, Windows versions or any other new tech I have naturally and voluntarily adopted throughout my life. But I know that if government and their media apparatchiks have to keep "explaining it" to me, then it isn't tech I need or want right now. You can tell me all about the possible futures, how great it will all be, etc. Cool, great. Until that future gets here, and even afterwards, my economic responsibility is defined entirely by MY personal profit motive. Period. When the EV world satisfies that personal profit motive better than ICE currently does, I'll be EV shopping...happily.
The grid and our devotion to reliably generating electricity on the cheap is a foundational issue right now, and from that, the ubiquity of charging stations (which given the time it takes to charge a vehicle need to outnumber gas pumps by at least 2:1) comes next. For the individual vehicle, cost (with no subsidy whatsoever), all-condition reliability, all-use ability, range and refueling times are all inferior to ICE. That's the reality. Feel free to tell me about advancement this, future that, around-the-corner something else, but none of the "explaining it to me" will change the present day reality.
Also, I don't win a prize for early adoption, nor do I lose out on a possible prize for being the last person on Earth to adopt a new technology. There is no "win" for being "right" about the future of EVs. I am not right or wrong about the future. What I am is correct in the present, according to my reality and my personal profit motive, and given that of total registered vehicles right, EVs count for ~1.2% of the total, I'd offer that a pretty vast majority of the car buying populace thinks like me.
Many "other parts of the world" - most, in fact - do not have the "wide open spaces" and daily commute culture we have here (USA) - so most "nation to nation" comparisons won't get far. We don't have public-transport options here (most cities).
We rightfully have range anxiety - as folks here routinely commute 1 to 2 hours EACH WAY to work each day. This is unheard of in Europe. We have concerns about replacing the battery - who will pay for that? We keep cars for 10 to 20 years here - rarely exchanging them until they can't crawl out of the driveway. How will I do that with an EV? There are genuine questions about "the grid" - but the concern there is mainly misplaced, to be fair. The POWER PLANTS have plenty of overhead to support this - but your local poles and transformers do not. For a couple of cars, sure. For an entire neighborhood to simultaneously charge - nope. Who will pay to upgrade these things?
But in the end - while we all can appreciate less pollution - do the math. Look up the numbers. If EVERY. SINGLE. CAR. in the usa were replaced by EV - then the overall global emissions would (maybe) be reduced by about 1%. Yup. 1%.
And for this, we are said to have "anti EV fervor." No. We just have genuine questions about the lack of great reward for a ridiculous amount of effort and change.
1) A short scroll away is a thread dealing with the predicted (hoped) for collapse of tesla from its current 168-ish to 14 by a guy who bet every dollar on that to happen
2) a short scroll away are many threads dealing with the BILLIONS of dollars the OEMS are losing as EV sales range from flat to non-existent
3) a short scroll away is a thread about Fisker about to collapse, after taking a Ukrainian size hunk of taxpayer money to boot, with the collapse perhaps as early as TOMORROW
4) a short scroll away is a thread about rivan and the fact that it is 100% bankrupt
5) short scrolls away are hundreds of threads about people not being able to comfortably buy - or in some cases even afford - just about anything, least of all a new car let alone an expensive new car
If you want there to be a tipping point in the favor of EVs then you have to post haste remove the current admin and ANY AND ALL of their admirers.
Mayor Pete, 48ish hours ago accidentally stumbled on a truth and in true mayor pete fashion, screwed up its meaning and delivery. They dont call him "the man completely unqualified to hold ANY job" for nuttin... His comparo of cell phones to land lines...
cell phones lived, cost be damned (which was ULTRA high at the time, remember when 30 minutes a month and $3bux per afterwards was a GOOD deal?) because the population - on their OWN - decided it was more convenient and worth the cost and the technology was going that way because the govt was not involved AT ALL.
The exact reverse is true with respect to EVs and in fact, if you step back and think about it, what was starting as a natural progression has been stymied by the actual biden admin. Each time he makes a new demand or sets a new rule or mandate, sales progressions actually SHRINK and consumer resentment GROWS. Way to sell heaters to eskimos Mr Biden.... (plus his demonification of the only viable US maker because the owner bought twitter and stopped all the BS - is like bassakwards to a degree never before seen by mankind)
It is april 2024. 2025 MY is 4 months away. In fact, some fringe 2025s are out NOW. 2030 is therefore 5 years 4 months away. Do the math for any other target. If they want a FRACTION of the target to be hit, in 5 years, they need to start shooting people by the hundreds of thousands.
Of course, it could be that internet wailers dont understand the use of the term 'tipping point' and use it over and over because Algore started using it. In simple terms, a tipping point is the point on some 'function' where the reverse of the function CANNOT ever happen and you move to a future state with 100% certainty.
We aint there.
We aint even in the ballpark
...for the correct sport
..in fact we aint even woke up yet.
but carry on...
Glossary:
Tipping point with respect to economics: Tipping Point Forecasting in Non-Stationary Dynamics on Function Spaces. Tipping points are abrupt, drastic, and often irreversible changes in the evolution of non-stationary and chaotic dynamical systems
with respect to math: Lenton (2013) defines tipping points as points in which small perturbations generate abrupt, often irreversible changes in the future of the system. Note that the fact that perturbation does not need to result in immediate change means that tipping points are difficult to predict.
in general: the critical point in a situation, process, or system beyond which a significant and often unstoppable effect or change takes place.
and 5 million other quotes that say the same thing, but you get the point...
the difference between EV's and ICE at this point is infrastructure.
We built infrastructure for cars and we even had the government give cities money to build highways for cares ( as opposed to Public transportation), we widened streets, knocked down buildings, we built parking lots/garages . We made owning a car in general the standard.
for EV's to work, It needs to be explained to people that it removes our dependency on foreign oil.
Then, it needs to be explained how its cheaper, and finally, the push to make it viable with accessibility via charging stations and home chargers built-in
"for EV's to work, It needs to be explained to people that it removes our dependency on foreign oil."
Do we have all the required energy materials for EV batteries here in the USA? If not, can that "be explained" to us skeptical troglodytes how we wont need to depend on hostile foreign sources?
And what is "cheaper"? Perhaps the simple mile per dollar ratio of ICE vs EV may be, but what of other costs overall?
Last edited by AZ Desert Guy; 04-04-2024 at 09:14 AM..
"for EV's to work, It needs to be explained to people that it removes our dependency on foreign oil."
Do we have all the required energy materials for EV batteries here in the USA? If not, can that "be explained" to us skeptical troglodytes how we wont need to depend on hostile foreign sources?
And what is "cheaper"? Perhaps the simple mile per dollar ratio of ICE vs EV may be, other costs overall?
What's funny about what you quoted is that we're not "dependent" on foreign oil except as a trade of one type for another. The US is actually exporting oil.
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