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I KNOW a guy who dated a stunner. I guess he is good-ish looking tho I cannot tell beyond not hideous and he is fit. If 5 on 10 scale is median lets call him a six.
He dated a 9 (and I dont give 10s) The drama was endless. They could not go to a club or party without some alpha chimp hitting on his girlfriend because alpha chimp was rich or whatever. They would hit on her in front of him. She was loyal but I imagine the drama did factor in their eventual break up. Years later he is married to a sort of pretty woman that makes him happy. No dog, but no model either. Probably also a 6 on the 10 scale. I would imagine she does get hit on some, but it is not a constant barrage in his face.
I’m glad he was smart enough to choose someone better suited to the sort of life he wanted.
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I think the perception with these guys is that even the regular everyday girls are going for the top tier guys. They date the top tier guys casually then afterwards settle down with a regular guy they wouldn't have given the time of day to when they were in their casual dating years. I have not been in the dating scene for a long time but it's a common enough complaint that there may be something to it. There's entitlement on both sides of the equation here perhaps.
I know a guy who I guess is an incel...the only sex he's had that anyone knows about is on occasional trips to Amsterdam for weed and hooker vacations. He's not bitter at all, at least not in person. He's a nice guy but awkward, and he's on the low end of the looks scale. At some point he seemed to accept his fate and just get real in to his hobbies. Some of it was self inflicted I think. Even though he was no looker he had high standards for the attractiveness of women he would consider dating. Not a rational choice but since he never did get too bitter about it I guess it's his business. He is living in his parents house, in the room he's had since he was a kid, and plans on doing so forever. His father has already passed and his mother is getting up there in age. He's going to take the house over when she dies.
So yeah, he can live in his aging parent's spare bedroom forever. Oh and he has a good job and a lot of money so it's not even for financial reasons. Just never had a reason to move out.
Oh, I get being frustrated that girls WANT top-tier guys in terms of looks and money, but not all girls will get these guys for more than a fling. They’ll settle down with men closer to their own looks and social standing most of the time. And, these guys would absolutely hook up with the hottest girls IF they could so why are they hating? Hate the game, not the players.
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The radicalization of young men through the internet is concerning. Incels, Islamic fundamentalists, white supremacists - there are all kinds of varieties of extremists who seem energized to do horrible things just so they can score brownie points with their online cohorts.
It should be noted that "incel" is a specific mindset, perhaps a more radicalized version of "men going their own way." We all know men (and women!) who have limited luck with their preferred gender. Not all turn that into violence against all women and men who they perceive as "Chad"s.
For instance, one of my good friends hasn't had sex in close to a decade. He has a master's degree and law degree, a decent job, interesting hobbies, and is a great conversationalist. He's also overweight, balding, and a human version of Eeyore in terms of his personality. We became close through my boyfriend's social network, but before I met my partner, another mutual friend tried to hook us up since we have similar politics, hobbies, religious/ethnic backgrounds and on paper were what the other said we were looking for. He turned down the "blind" date because he saw my photo and saw that I was overweight. Now, I don't expect anyone to lower their standards but that was 5 years ago. I've dated "in my league" and had a lot of success while he hasn't gone beyond a 2nd date since then. He and I went out to a brewery a few months ago and once he had a few drinks in him, he expressed that had he gotten out of his own way, he and I would probably be married by now. I don't necessarily disagree. And yet he still holds women to impossible standards that he himself does not meet - whether he realizes that or not. I've helped him with his online dating profile and am ready to tear my hair out because of all the little things he considers dealbreakers. But he doesn't blame all women, and in fact is a strong feminist and has very little patience for the incel mindset. Could he have been radicalized? If he was 10 years younger and had a less supportive social network, perhaps.
Last edited by charolastra00; 05-07-2018 at 10:45 AM..
I get why most women would want nothing to do with him, especially at this point, but I don't get why his mother wouldn't want him to get the house when she passed. She has two other kids who grew up and started families of their own, but this one just never found a reason to leave and apparently she never had a reason to kick him out.
From what I know he helps her out a lot, especially since his father passed. And really...who's he hurting? I don't know what he does online, maybe you are right and he's an MGTOW guy but in person he doesn't talk bad about women, doesn't seem angry at the world like these incel guys and is generally a nice guy. Maybe he'll live the easy life and never fully grow up until the day he dies. If he never has to, then who cares?
This sort of thing is fine - unmarried adult son (or daughter, there are some who do the same) who has a good job, contributes to the household and cares for his aging parent. I have absolutely no criticism of or issues with adult children in this position, be they male or female.
It's the ones who leech off their aging parents - no job, no interest in getting a job, doing nothing around the house, making excuses for all the self-imposed dysfunction, blaming everyone and everything for their difficulties - they themselves are the problem, be they Incel or not. Incels are just a very extreme version.
In the situation I described previously, the unemployed man lives with his parent in the parent's rented apartment - so, no house to inherit. Once that parent is gone, he will probably try to move in with his other parent (parents are divorced), in a larger city (where he is at present is booming, however, with lots of job opportunities).
But his other parent already has another dysfunctional adult child living at home: diagnosed mental illness, though they are able to hold down a menial job. The two other adult siblings also have issues but are self-supporting and do not live with the parents. So I suspect some toxicity in the parenting or perhaps genetic issues - or both. One of the grandparents had major issues, long ago...perhaps this is their terrible legacy.
If this were my son and living with me under these circumstances, I'd put a deposit and a month's rent on a studio apartment, starting in June, stock the fridge, furnish it with thrift shop finds, and change my locks, while presenting him with the keys to his new abode. I'd give him the rest of the month to pack up and would provide the boxes. I'd invite him for Sunday dinner - eaten out, Dutch.
I would not put up with having him indefinitely living in my home, staying up all hours, wanting to talk to (at, more accurately) me incessantly about obscure topics once I myself got home from work, not pulling his weight or paying his expenses, making excuses, picking arguments, leaving messes, never going outside, not applying for jobs because he views them as beneath him, and so on.
Of course, I would hope that any child of mine would have more consistent and rational parenting early on and would not develop these issues, or if worrisome signs began to surface, that I would have seen them and sought help rather than been in denial.
The radicalization of young men through the internet is concerning. Incels, Islamic fundamentalists, white supremacists - there are all kinds of varieties of extremists who seem energized to do horrible things just so they can score brownie points with their online cohorts.
It should be noted that "incel" is a specific mindset, perhaps a more radicalized version of "men going their own way." We all know men (and women!) who have limited luck with their preferred gender. Not all turn that into violence against all women and men who they perceive as "Chad"s.
For instance, one of my good friends hasn't had sex in close to a decade. He has a master's degree and law degree, a decent job, interesting hobbies, and is a great conversationalist. He's also overweight, balding, and a human version of Eeyore in terms of his personality. We became close through my boyfriend's social network, but before I met my partner, another mutual friend tried to hook us up since we have similar politics, hobbies, religious/ethnic backgrounds and on paper were what the other said we were looking for. He turned down the "blind" date because he saw my photo and saw that I was overweight. Now, I don't expect anyone to lower their standards but that was 5 years ago. I've dated "in my league" and had a lot of success while he hasn't gone beyond a 2nd date since then. He and I went out to a brewery a few months ago and once he had a few drinks in him, he expressed that had he gotten out of his own way, he and I would probably be married by now. I don't necessarily disagree. And yet he still holds women to impossible standards that he himself does not meet - whether he realizes that or not. I've helped him with his online dating profile and am ready to tear my hair out because of all the little things he considers dealbreakers. But he doesn't blame all women, and in fact is a strong feminist and has very little patience for the incel mindset. Could he have been radicalized? If he was 10 years younger and had a less supportive social network, perhaps.
interesting story. I think it's particularly sad that he's self-aware enough to know that he's in his own way of getting the life he says he wants, yet that doesn't stop him from continuing to maintain standards for women that are going to be - at least for him - most likely not achievable.
I will say that I find women tend to relax their standards a bit more easily - as they get older, as they realize that kindness and being treated well by their partner feels better than being with someone who is super hot, etc. Men seem to not always come to the same realizations.
This "man weirdness" extends beyond just this incel thing. I have spoken about on this forum even. There are men who look for any trivial opportunity to speak to a woman in any situation. I remember one forum discussion about "is asking a woman why she is not smiling offense?" or something like that. Several men just could not get it in their head about how odd-ball it is to ask such a thing, and strangely (but not surprising) never answered when challenged would they ask a guy the same question.
I tell my my wife that generally, there is zero reason for any man to ever speak to you when in public. But sure enough, without fail, at least once a week a man will be asking directions, asking her to smile (yea, no kidding), asking where she is from, even asking her out for coffee. In comparison, hardly anyone has ever asked us when together anything, and despite my being outside walking almost every day for nearly a decade I have lived here, I can count on one hand the number of times someone has spoken to me for a random reason.
I will not even get into this friend zone thing, where a man believes a woman should have sex with him and/or date him due to him being nice to her, lol.
The radicalization of young men through the internet is concerning. Incels, Islamic fundamentalists, white supremacists - there are all kinds of varieties of extremists who seem energized to do horrible things just so they can score brownie points with their online cohorts.
It should be noted that "incel" is a specific mindset, perhaps a more radicalized version of "men going their own way." We all know men (and women!) who have limited luck with their preferred gender. Not all turn that into violence against all women and men who they perceive as "Chad"s.
For instance, one of my good friends hasn't had sex in close to a decade. He has a master's degree and law degree, a decent job, interesting hobbies, and is a great conversationalist. He's also overweight, balding, and a human version of Eeyore in terms of his personality. We became close through my boyfriend's social network, but before I met my partner, another mutual friend tried to hook us up since we have similar politics, hobbies, religious/ethnic backgrounds and on paper were what the other said we were looking for. He turned down the "blind" date because he saw my photo and saw that I was overweight. Now, I don't expect anyone to lower their standards but that was 5 years ago. I've dated "in my league" and had a lot of success while he hasn't gone beyond a 2nd date since then. He and I went out to a brewery a few months ago and once he had a few drinks in him, he expressed that had he gotten out of his own way, he and I would probably be married by now. I don't necessarily disagree. And yet he still holds women to impossible standards that he himself does not meet - whether he realizes that or not. I've helped him with his online dating profile and am ready to tear my hair out because of all the little things he considers dealbreakers. But he doesn't blame all women, and in fact is a strong feminist and has very little patience for the incel mindset. Could he have been radicalized? If he was 10 years younger and had a less supportive social network, perhaps.
Since he got to admitting he had issues, maybe you could ask him why he has these overly high standards. Not that he will be able to answer, but maybe.
I also had an acquaintance who was like that. He admitted he was fat but would not date fat girls, or even overweight ones. So no dates. But he had a degree from a good school, good career, money, and interests like theater and gourmet food. But no one to go with. He was definitely an incel because he complained of it. He had a bad personality in which he would "neg" or tease people, especially women, by tossing out putdowns. Then he would make cracks about women who date lower level men, or losers, to him.
So women date losers and not he who would wine and dine them and take them to the opera. That made him very angry and frustrated so he would then designate these women as dumb or trashy. I explained how those men didn't patronize and insult the women and they were not really losers just because they were not wealthy. He said he would try to behave better socially but never succeeded. He admitted he was not being kind but then came right back with blaming the women.
I believe he thought his status should entitle him to a specific type of woman, despite his appearance and bad personality. This is common with incels and MRAs, who believe if they do A then they should get B but this is not always the case in reality.
And it's rare for the girls you meet playing online games to look like supermodels.
I do not know what happened to convince so many younger men that they were guaranteed sex or that the women they'd get to give it to them would be the top 10% in terms of looks while these younger men are more like the lower 50%, but they surely do feel entitled and I am completely baffled by it.
I am going to sound like an oldster here, but what happened to having the fantasy girl for the purposes of daydreaming and the realistic, attainable girlfriend for an actual relationship and sex?
There is something VERY wrong with these guys.
They do, in a sense. They call them "waifus". They are anime girls.
The 1-10 attractiveness scale is based purely on looks and is used mostly by young men when describing the desirability of a girl or woman. Most well-adjusted men seem to grow out of using this scale to describe a woman after they've gained some worldly experience or been in a long-term relationship.
I've hardly ever heard a woman describe a man this way.
Since he got to admitting he had issues, maybe you could ask him why he has these overly high standards. Not that he will be able to answer, but maybe.
I also had an acquaintance who was like that. He admitted he was fat but would not date fat girls, or even overweight ones. So no dates. But he had a degree from a good school, good career, money, and interests like theater and gourmet food. But no one to go with. He was definitely an incel because he complained of it. He had a bad personality in which he would "neg" or tease people, especially women, by tossing out putdowns. Then he would make cracks about women who date lower level men, or losers, to him.
So women date losers and not he who would wine and dine them and take them to the opera. That made him very angry and frustrated so he would then designate these women as dumb or trashy. I explained how those men didn't patronize and insult the women and they were not really losers just because they were not wealthy. He said he would try to behave better socially but never succeeded. He admitted he was not being kind but then came right back with blaming the women.
I believe he thought his status should entitle him to a specific type of woman, despite his appearance and bad personality. This is common with incels and MRAs, who believe if they do A then they should get B but this is not always the case in reality.
I have to wonder what personality traits or experiences it is that turns someone into what you describe versus my friend. Is it the self awareness? I'm not sure that my friend could put his finger on what it is that causes him to be the way he is, but he knows it's on him and not on the women he's interested in. As he approaches his late 30s, he's not dropping his very high standards at all despite a pool of potential dates shrinking and seeking the most desirable qualities in our region (at least a master's/professional degree, a bombshell, never married, no kids, as engaged in politics as he is, a foodie/beer snob) and he's unwilling to go on dates with people who don't tick his boxes just to see how it goes. I won't try to introduce him to my other friends anymore, but he has lots of women friends.
In another world, he could be angrily posting about "Chad"s and ranting about feminism somewhere. Thank G-d he's not, though it doesn't make his predicament any less sad.
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