Mineral Rights in Property Purchase (Pittsburgh, Washington: real estate, attorney, houses)

[Moving2Pennsylvania]

Hi All,
This question is probably posted elsewhere - sorry if it is! I’m looking at a property about 45 minutes out of Pittsburgh that is ostensibly perfect for me - private, wooded, with a lovely house. However, the current owners want to retain mineral rights. I know fracking is currently frozen, but I don’t want to be living on a property where people can come in and basically just set up an oil operation if there’s a policy reversal. I’m thinking mainly about disruption and pollution (I’m currently in Colorado, where all sorts of things are coming up from old mining and industrial operations) - I’m looking to live there until I’m carried out and I like peace and quiet and the outdoors. The realtor doesn’t think it’s a big deal, but other realtors outside of PA think it’s a huge issue.

There are no wells currently on the property and the nearest neighbor is unlikely to grant permission (which is apparently needed?). But policies change, neighbors move and I don’t want to be settled onto my dream property with industrial operations going on in my backyard.

What can happen if you don’t have the mineral rights to your own property? The realtor says it’s unlikely they could ever exercise those rights, but I’m wondering “then why insist on hanging on to them?”

Thanks!

[gus2]

I agree with you.

Someone else having "rights" to the ground under your feet poses a lot of risk and no reward/compensation. What are they offering you for this exception?

When you (or your heirs) go to sell the place, this will be another hiccup to deal with. I'm not a professional but I see absolutely no reason why you should agree to this.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by Moving2Pennsylvania

Hi All,
This question is probably posted elsewhere - sorry if it is! I’m looking at a property about 45 minutes out of Pittsburgh that is ostensibly perfect for me - private, wooded, with a lovely house. However, the current owners want to retain mineral rights. I know fracking is currently frozen, but I don’t want to be living on a property where people can come in and basically just set up an oil operation if there’s a policy reversal. I’m thinking mainly about disruption and pollution (I’m currently in Colorado, where all sorts of things are coming up from old mining and industrial operations) - I’m looking to live there until I’m carried out and I like peace and quiet and the outdoors. The realtor doesn’t think it’s a big deal, but other realtors outside of PA think it’s a huge issue.

There are no wells currently on the property and the nearest neighbor is unlikely to grant permission (which is apparently needed?). But policies change, neighbors move and I don’t want to be settled onto my dream property with industrial operations going on in my backyard.

What can happen if you don’t have the mineral rights to your own property? The realtor says it’s unlikely they could ever exercise those rights, but I’m wondering “then why insist on hanging on to them?”

Thanks!

You need to talk to an oil and gas attorney. You may be able to prevent surface use of the property, even though you don't own the mineral rights. Since this would be a lifetime investment, it's worth paying a few hundred dollars for the advice.

[svband76]

Originally Posted by WRM20

You need to talk to an oil and gas attorney. You may be able to prevent surface use of the property, even though you don't own the mineral rights. Since this would be a lifetime investment, it's worth paying a few hundred dollars for the advice.

Yes. A real estate attorney practicing in Washington County is money well spent. Even if it's $1,000 still worth it. Can you divulge location of property? Just curious. And not sure of the hold on fracking or where you heard of that. Anyway, good luck.

[Pitt Chick]

Originally Posted by Moving2Pennsylvania

Hi All,
This question is probably posted elsewhere - sorry if it is! I’m looking at a property about 45 minutes out of Pittsburgh that is ostensibly perfect for me - private, wooded, with a lovely house. However, the current owners want to retain mineral rights.

I would want to know why.

We have never owned the mineral rights with our PA houses.
Because of extensive coal mining ages ago, the rights were held by the now-defunct mining companies. It was never an issue and very common.

But your situation is different.
Why do they want to hold the rights?
Are they sure they own the rights?
Are they expecting a windfall in the near future?

Friends have 16 acres and don't hold the rights. They DO have a gas well on site, far away from their house. They also have an access road cut through the woods to said well. (Access must be allowed ) In exchange, they get free gas. They are fine with it.

[RetireinPA]

Originally Posted by Moving2Pennsylvania

Hi All,
This question is probably posted elsewhere - sorry if it is! I’m looking at a property about 45 minutes out of Pittsburgh that is ostensibly perfect for me - private, wooded, with a lovely house. However, the current owners want to retain mineral rights. I know fracking is currently frozen, but I don’t want to be living on a property where people can come in and basically just set up an oil operation if there’s a policy reversal. I’m thinking mainly about disruption and pollution (I’m currently in Colorado, where all sorts of things are coming up from old mining and industrial operations) - I’m looking to live there until I’m carried out and I like peace and quiet and the outdoors. The realtor doesn’t think it’s a big deal, but other realtors outside of PA think it’s a huge issue.

There are no wells currently on the property and the nearest neighbor is unlikely to grant permission (which is apparently needed?). But policies change, neighbors move and I don’t want to be settled onto my dream property with industrial operations going on in my backyard.

What can happen if you don’t have the mineral rights to your own property? The realtor says it’s unlikely they could ever exercise those rights, but I’m wondering “then why insist on hanging on to them?”

Thanks!

where in pa? I have a number of friends in resource production in w.pa and can find out if there are development plans. 45 minutes outside of pitt can be a large stretch of land (unless its 45 minutes on pittsburgh roads meaning it is in pleasant hills, mt lebo, mckees rocks, harmar etc and VERY unlikely they will use them.


Is this bare property or a house on it? you can add a clause that if hey exercise rights and disturb the ground, they have to buy you out at 'n times the current fair market value'. thats a popular option and it keeps all but the real serious out.

[RetireinPA]

Originally Posted by Pitt Chick

I would want to know why.

We have never owned the mineral rights with our PA houses.
Because of extensive coal mining ages ago, the rights were held by the now-defunct mining companies. It was never an issue and very common.

But your situation is different.
Why do they want to hold the rights?
Are they sure they own the rights?
Are they expecting a windfall in the near future?

Friends have 16 acres and don't hold the rights. They DO have a gas well on site, far away from their house. They also have an access road cut through the woods to said well. (Access must be allowed ) In exchange, they get free gas. They are fine with it.

after a period of time, the mineral rights in pa expire, but do not revert. check yer original to make sure they were not put in a 'bank'

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by RetireinPA

after a period of time, the mineral rights in pa expire, but do not revert. check yer original to make sure they were not put in a 'bank'

I have heard that "coal rights" are separate from "mineral rights" in some states. I'm not an expert but I would ask an expert if I lived in an area where there might be coal under the house.

In 2019 when my wife inherited her brother's house in Northumberland County, PA that he'd bought in 1972 the deed specifically said the coal rights belonged to someone else (I forget the details).

On 60 Minutes one time, decades ago, they featured an elderly couple who was put out of their retirement home (or had a railroad built 50 feet away; some such horror story) by a coal company. Not for mining, but to build the railroad that took the coal out of the mine. The coal company had a right of way. I guess they should have checked before building.

[PITairport]

I'm far from an expert on this and others can correct me, but be cognizant of horizontal drilling. If a neighbor (up to a mile or so away?) has your mineral rights they can drill your minerals out from underneath you without touching your land.

As others have said I don't see any reason to agree to this unless they offer you serious $$$ upfront for those rights.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by PITairport

I'm far from an expert on this and others can correct me, but be cognizant of horizontal drilling. If a neighbor (up to a mile or so away?) has your mineral rights they can drill your minerals out from underneath you without touching your land.

As others have said I don't see any reason to agree to this unless they offer you serious $$$ upfront for those rights.

If Pa is anything like Texas, the current owners will tell you to get lost if you demand they sell you the mineral rights.