Cincinnati VS Columbus VS Cleveland (Youngstown: best city, transplants, 2014)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In Cleveland you can use mass transit to get to different neighborhoods for entertainment
In Cincy, you can go to Kings Island, The Beach waterpark or Coney Island waterpark
Columbus has a widespread bus system, which does count as mass transit.
Columbus has the the zoo and Zoombezi Bay which has a large water park and multiple rides including a rollercoaster. Columbus also has another indoor waterpark off of 70.
I really like Columbus alot, having been a former resident of that burgeoning city.
But ...
There's a plethora of things that one can do in Cleveland ... that you simply can not do in Columbus!
Here's a brief excerpt from what is a very long list ...
Cleveland Offerings ( unmatched in Ohio )
1. Cleveland Museum Of Art ( One of the TOP 5 in America )
2. PlayHouse Square ( 2nd largest theatre district in the world - only broadway in NYC is larger )
3. Lake Erie - Boating and other recreational activities ( Sorry, Alum Creek Resevoir outside of C-bus just doesn't come close )
4. University Circle District - Largest concentration of museums, healthcare, education and cultural venues in the U.S. ... all located within one square mile.
5. Cleveland Orchestra - Routinely cited as the best orchestra in the United States.
6. Cuyahoga Valley National Park - located at the southern tier of the city limits, it's the only national park in Ohio ... and provides a beautiful recreational area for Clevelanders and visitors alike.
7. Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Museum - Birthplace of rock music
8. RTA - advanced rail and bus transportation system covering Cleveland and most of the interior suburbs ... including a commuter train to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport ( implemented in 1968 - first in country to have rapid transit from a city centre to an airport )
Columbus has museums, theaters, healthcare, arts districts, etc. Not having the exact same is not the same as having nothing. For example, we don't have a national park, but we have a larger Metro Park system than Cleveland or Cincinnati including just about all the amenities and natural attractions that the Cuyahoga Valley has... hills, cliffs, waterfalls, prairies, forests, rivers, lakes, even buffalo.
The only thing on your list that Columbus absolutely doesn't have in some form is light rail. How long do you honestly think that will last given growth rates?
I really like Columbus alot, having been a former resident of that burgeoning city.
But ...
There's a plethora of things that one can do in Cleveland ... that you simply can not do in Columbus!
Here's a brief excerpt from what is a very long list ...
Cleveland Offerings ( unmatched in Ohio )
1. Cleveland Museum Of Art ( One of the TOP 5 in America )
2. PlayHouse Square ( 2nd largest theatre district in the world - only broadway in NYC is larger )
3. Lake Erie - Boating and other recreational activities ( Sorry, Alum Creek Resevoir outside of C-bus just doesn't come close )
4. University Circle District - Largest concentration of museums, healthcare, education and cultural venues in the U.S. ... all located
within one square mile.
5. Cleveland Orchestra - Routinely cited as the best orchestra in the
United States.
6. Cuyahoga Valley National Park - located at the southern tier of the city limits, it's the only national park in Ohio ... and provides a beautiful recreational area for Clevelanders and visitors alike.
7. Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Museum - Birthplace of rock music
8. RTA - advanced rail and bus transportation system covering Cleveland and most of the interior suburbs ... including a commuter train to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport ( implemented in 1968 - first in country to have rapid transit from a city centre to an airport )
Despite John's usual over-the-top boosterism, this sounds about right to me. Although he forgot the West Side Market, Great Lakes Brewery, and pro sports!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
Griggs reservoir, Buckeye Lake, Alum Creek, etc... next?
Give me a break . There is no way you can compare those tiny lakes to having access to a great lake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81
The only thing on your list that Columbus absolutely doesn't have in some form is light rail. How long do you honestly think that will last given growth rates?
Sadly longer than I would like considering that a light rail down High Street seems like a no-brainer. Didn't a proposal for such a rail just get shot down? Cleveland, despite it's negative grow rate, recently built a BRT line. I could actually see Cleveland expanding it's light rail before Columbus gets any, especially if it can turn around its population decline. Of course Ohio policy is not pro-urban, so I doubt either will likely get done anytime soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C
I don't know much about Columbus; of the 3C's, it is the city I am least interested in.
Since I don't know that much about Columbus, does it have anything equivalent to the West Side Market, the Cleveland Orchestra, or Playhouse Square?
Columbus does not offer top tier cultural institutions like Cleveland's orchestra, art museum, or theater district. It does not have any market like the West Side Market either, although few cities in this country have such a market. Cleveland benefits from having boomed during a period when such quality institutions were established in this country.
Columbus does have Ohio State and some cool neighborhoods like German Village and Short North. The German Village neighborhood is quite unique and may be my favorite neighborhood in the state. Finding a German neighborhood in this country that celebrates its roots is unfortunately rare. It's pretty crazy around campus during an OSU football game so that is a good time to visit.
I want to know all the things, exactly, that you can do in Cleveland and Cincinnati that you can't find similarly in Columbus. So many people repeatedly make this claim as some kind of established fact while ignorantly suggesting that Columbus is just a college town with nothing else to do. You make the claim, now prove it.
Oh for crying out loud. Cleveland and Cincinnati are far more established cities built upon major North American waterways and anchor bigger metros and, therefore, have all the amenities and benefits that go along with those distinctions. That's nothing that Columbus is doing wrong, per se. In fact, there's plenty that Columbus is doing right and a lot of its development is an overall positive for Ohio. It's just that Columbus doesn't have the near legacy that Cleveland and Cincinnati have and, I'd argue, a lower ceiling going forward than either of its two in-state big brothers.
I'm not going to sit here and point-by-point what Cleveland and Cincinnati have just for you to pull out something that you think Columbus has that's equivalent. Because, not only is that game excruciatingly boring and juvenile, but frankly, you'll refuse to concede in just about every category - you already have. Even though you'll point out that Columbus also has a symphony orchestra, for example, it's just not on the same planet as Cleveland's. And even though you bragged in another post that Columbus has a "rollercoaster," whatever amusement park Columbus has (forgive me for not knowing its name) is simply not in the same galaxy as Kings Island. What you're doing would be like someone from Tulsa telling someone from Chicago: "We have skyscrapers too!"
So, in light of that, I'll be much more general: Columbus can't possibly touch either Cleveland or Cincinnati in areas such as the arts, cultural attractions, sports and sports diversity, parks, waterfront space, topography, neighborhoods, skyline, architecture, downtown environment, name recognition or even just general urban vibe.
And as much as people in Columbus try desperately to separate the city from tOSU in order to give it another identity, there really is no way around the fact that the city revolves almost exclusively around the university. It's literally the elephant in the room. Unfortunately, there's no denying that tOSU (particularly tOSU football) dominates so many facets of life in central Ohio and, thankfully, that just isn't the case in Cincinnati or Cleveland. (Wasn't it just this year that ESPN commentator and former Buckeye QB Kirk Herbstreit who had to sell his house in suburban Columbus and move to Tennessee because the constant, unending hatred, vitriol and pressure from OSU fans in Columbus was just too much?)
Columbus does have plenty of neat things: German Village, High Street, COSI, Easton, etc. I just don't think, as a whole, it stacks up with Cleveland or Cincinnati. Columbus, after all, is the home of the Cleveland Indians' AAA affiliate. How's this for symbology: Do well in Columbus, get called up to the big leagues in Cleveland. Cleveland = major league ... Columbus = minor league.
Give me a break . There is no way you can compare those tiny lakes to having access to a great lake.
Yeah, that's more than a stretch. Cleveland's lakefront location is a nice amenity that Columbus can't match. I enjoy a drive up Riverside Drive as much as the next person, but it's not a Great Lake. (And Buckeye Lake isn't even in Columbus, it's a good 45-60 minutes away.)
Also, Cleveland has a clear advantage in the cultural institutions as well. The Museum of Art , Symphony, RnR Hall of Fame and theater district are top-class, while Columbus is decidedly second-tier in that regard.
Columbus has a widespread bus system, which does count as mass transit.
Columbus has the the zoo and Zoombezi Bay which has a large water park and multiple rides including a rollercoaster. Columbus also has another indoor waterpark off of 70.
Next?
A bus system isn't mass transit, it's public transportation. Cleveland is the ONLY city in Ohio with rapid transit
Zoombezi Bay isn't Kings Island, please don't compare the two. Cincy has multiple indoor waterparks, including the Great Wolf Lodge, hell there's 2 indoor waterparks with in 3 miles of my house.
Columbus is cool though, and moving in the right direction, but Cincy and Cleveland are the big dogs. Actually, all 3 C's are big dogs, Columbus is still a pup though, but growing up very fast.
To say Columbus is only OSU is laughable. The univiersity district is literally like its on lil bubble or town. You think people east of 71 have any relation or even care about Ohio State? Most my people never even been on Campus and the same would be true for majority of the city.... It's the media who caters to the wealthy alumni around the metro that constantly overhypes Ohio State NOT the majority of residents....I can guarantee I live a much different lifestyle than most people on this board but we all must share some common interest to be attracted to this board. It's a shame how other cities in Ohio try to downplay Columbus as a cowtown and the residents as some suckas. Ive gotten money all over Ohio.... And I admit Columbus was closer to a cowtown than not in the late 90's and early 2000s... With that said Columbus has came along way in the last 10 years and have gained many amenities that once only Cleveland and Cincinnati had. I think alot of Cleveland and Cincy posters blow off the progress Columbus has made because they feel they always had the amenities that Columbus is just now gaining. That may be true but to say Cleveland and Cincinnati are leaps and bounds better than Columbus in 2011 is laughable. The amenities Columbus has now gained puts us on the even playing field, that's why these posters are so hostile towards Columbus. I guess they feel threatened? I dunno why they would be. It takes years to change a perception of city just ask Cleveland. With all the people coming and going in Columbus, Ive never met a transplant that didn't like the city. Word will eventually get around..... Give Columbus a decade or even 5 years or even a couple years and I bet the perception many of you share on Columbus will be vastly different than it is today. And I do believe Columbus ceiling is infinitely greater than those of Cleveland or Cincinnati but that's just my opinion. At the end of the day it's the PEOPLE who make a city not the other-way around......
Despite John's usual over-the-top boosterism, this sounds about right to me. Although he forgot the West Side Market, Great Lakes Brewery, and pro sports!
Give me a break . There is no way you can compare those tiny lakes to having access to a great lake.
Why not? You can boat on both, fish on both... besides scale, what is the real difference?
Sadly longer than I would like considering that a light rail down High Street seems like a no-brainer. Didn't a proposal for such a rail just get shot down? Cleveland, despite it's negative grow rate, recently built a BRT line. I could actually see Cleveland expanding it's light rail before Columbus gets any, especially if it can turn around its population decline. Of course Ohio policy is not pro-urban, so I doubt either will likely get done anytime soon.
It was in the initial planning stages until the economy dived, and it was shelved when it was clear Kasich had every intention to do everything he could to stop these projects. That said, I expect this to happen before 2020.
Columbus does not offer top tier cultural institutions like Cleveland's orchestra, art museum, or theater district. It does not have any market like the West Side Market either, although few cities in this country have such a market. Cleveland benefits from having boomed during a period when such quality institutions were established in this country.
Your argument was that Columbus didn't have any of this stuff, not that the scales were different. Certainly on some things, the sizes are going to differ. My point is that there is often a similar venue. Columbus has North Market and various other markets throughout the city. I'm not sure it matters that there are size differences or a perceived "top tier" prestige. There are still markets available. There are still theaters, museums, and a symphony, ballet, etc. You forget that Columbus has not peaked, and in terms of population, has not yet reached where Cleveland was back in 1950. Any significant differences will tend to get fewer and fewer.
Columbus does have Ohio State and some cool neighborhoods like German Village and Short North. The German Village neighborhood is quite unique and may be my favorite neighborhood in the state. Finding a German neighborhood in this country that celebrates its roots is unfortunately rare. It's pretty crazy around campus during an OSU football game so that is a good time to visit.
.
The continual reference to OSU is annoying, honestly. It would be like saying that Cleveland is nothing more than the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or Cincy is nothing more than the Reds. Seriously, it's like most of you have never set foot past High Street.
Oh for crying out loud. Cleveland and Cincinnati are far more established cities built upon major North American waterways and anchor bigger metros and, therefore, have all the amenities and benefits that go along with those distinctions. That's nothing that Columbus is doing wrong, per se. In fact, there's plenty that Columbus is doing right and a lot of its development is an overall positive for Ohio. It's just that Columbus doesn't have the near legacy that Cleveland and Cincinnati have and, I'd argue, a lower ceiling going forward than either of its two in-state big brothers.
What does that even mean? Who cares if they are older or have legacy... frankly, the fact that so many people have left the urban centers is a testament that that's not exactly a selling point. City life is about more than just having old buildings and an established reputation. I'll give you that both Cincinnati and Cleveland are more famous than Columbus. That doesn't really change anything, though. Honestly, the condescending attitudes are just over the top.
I'm not going to sit here and point-by-point what Cleveland and Cincinnati have just for you to pull out something that you think Columbus has that's equivalent. Because, not only is that game excruciatingly boring and juvenile, but frankly, you'll refuse to concede in just about every category - you already have. Even though you'll point out that Columbus also has a symphony orchestra, for example, it's just not on the same planet as Cleveland's. And even though you bragged in another post that Columbus has a "rollercoaster," whatever amusement park Columbus has (forgive me for not knowing its name) is simply not in the same galaxy as Kings Island. What you're doing would be like someone from Tulsa telling someone from Chicago: "We have skyscrapers too!"
But I was not the one who keeps claiming that the 3 are miles apart from each other. If that were clearly true, I couldn't come up with similar amenities in the first place. Tulsa and Chicago ARE actually miles apart... the 3-C's... no way. That's a joke and you know it.
So, in light of that, I'll be much more general: Columbus can't possibly touch either Cleveland or Cincinnati in areas such as the arts, cultural attractions, sports and sports diversity, parks, waterfront space, topography, neighborhoods, skyline, architecture, downtown environment, name recognition or even just general urban vibe.
That's interesting... so why are so many leaving both? Cities with all these amazing amenities and quality of life should be meccas of population growth. Instead, you've had 6 decades of losses while Columbus has had the exact opposite. You can't even convince other Clevelanders to stick around, so why should I believe that it's so much better?
the university. It's literally the elephant in the room. Unfortunately, there's no denying that tOSU (particularly tOSU football) dominates so many facets of life in central Ohio and, thankfully, that just isn't the case in Cincinnati or Cleveland. (Wasn't it just this year that ESPN commentator and former Buckeye QB Kirk Herbstreit who had to sell his house in suburban Columbus and move to Tennessee because the constant, unending hatred, vitriol and pressure from OSU fans in Columbus was just too much?)
It dominates the sporting world here, but that's about it. Again, I actually live here every day, I experience daily life here, and OSU is just not at the forefront of anything outside of football season. You can believe whatever you want.
Columbus does have plenty of neat things: German Village, High Street, COSI, Easton, etc. I just don't think, as a whole, it stacks up with Cleveland or Cincinnati. Columbus, after all, is the home of the Cleveland Indians' AAA affiliate. How's this for symbology: Do well in Columbus, get called up to the big leagues in Cleveland. Cleveland = major league ... Columbus = minor league.
You have to wonder just how long this is going to remain true, though. I bet some of you are sweating at the thought that Columbus becomes the dominant market (and it will given all the trends). You forget that we didn't enter the pro-sport world until 2000, and we only did so when the market became big enough to support it. The city continues to grow by double digits, and it may actually be increasing even more. The city is spending billions on development and improvements. Our downtown's population is up significantly and more projects are in the works. Whatever you think Columbus lacks, however minor league you think it is, people actually want to live here. And you don't even have to give a crap about OSU.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. There is no way you can compare those tiny lakes to having access to a great lake.
