Cincinnati MSA to surpass Cleveland MSA in population this year (Columbus: school, place to live)

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by CTownNative

Thats I think the only reason Cincinnati's metro is gaining population is because it is close to Indiana and Kentucky.I mean how does the Cincinnati area in Ohio gain a bunch of people when the whole state only gained like 10,000 people.

Even if that were the only reason Cincy's metro is growing (which it's not), so what? Are you suggesting that metro areas shouldn't cross state lines? I doubt that you are, as that would be a rather ridiculous suggestion. Anyway, even if you just consider the Ohio portion of the Cincy metro, it is growing. Here are the 2000-2006 population change numbers...

Hamilton County: -22,707 (-2.7%)
Butler County: +22,185 (+6.7%)
Warren County: +43,488 (+26.8%)
Clermont County: +14,729 (+8.6%)
Brown County: +2,138 (+5.1%)

All five counties combined: +59,833 (+3.8%)

Cleveland MSA: -33,988 (-1.6%)

Cleveland CSA (for those who think the Akron MSA should be included in the Cleveland MSA): -28,030 (-1.0%)

BTW, if you exclude Cuyahoga County and its loss of 79,737 residents (-5.7%), the growth rate for the entire state of Ohio nearly doubles from 1.1% to 2.1% for the 2000-2006 period. I should also point out that the increase in population for the entire state (including Cuyahoga's loss) over that period was 124,866, not 10,000.

Ohio QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

[MABCle]

OH-176 IS part of the big merger between I90, I77,I71 and 490 so traffic ends up on downtown streets. The same with 490, an extension of I90. I also left out Oh-2, which serves the West side as well as Chester and Carnegie Avenues two heavily traveled routes to downtown Cleveland.

The college season is VERY short in comparison to the NBA season meaning the economic impact of the games played in the city (41) eclipses that of College teams.


I agree with most on here that Cleveland feels bigger. The Hills of Cincinnati cut off neighborhoods in a way the expansive avenues and flatness of Cleveland (until forest hills) doesn't. As well our downtown is larger and is a larger employement center. All around I just think its bigger on a national and international level. Cleveland and COlumbus are even rated as world cities over Cincinnati.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by MABCle

I agree with most on here that Cleveland feels bigger. The Hills of Cincinnati cut off neighborhoods in a way the expansive avenues and flatness of Cleveland (until forest hills) doesn't. As well our downtown is larger and is a larger employement center. All around I just think its bigger on a national and international level. Cleveland and COlumbus are even rated as world cities over Cincinnati.

With the Cincy metro's continued population growth and Clevleand metro's continued population decline, I honestly believe that the current national/international perception will reverse soon. As previously discussed, Cincy's MSA will be listed above Cleveland's MSA when the Census Bureau publishes the July 1, 2007 estimates next spring. Also, as previously discussed, it is likely that the Census Bureau will add the Dayton MSA to the Cincy CSA in a few years; when that happens, the Cincy-Dayton CSA will be above the Cleveland-Akron CSA.

BTW, David Letterman is one who already thinks Cincy is bigger. When he was recently talking to an audience member from Columbus, he mentioned that Columbus is now the largest city in Ohio; she agreed, and he further commented (mistakenly) that Cincinnati is 2nd and Cleveland is 3rd (nobody corrected him). I'm assuming that the reason he thought Cincy is larger is that he saw an article that stated that the Cincy MSA will/has passed the Cleveland MSA. He is known to be very wonkish, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he reads that type of stuff.

Regarding sports, I would bet that a national poll would show that the majority of people would rather have Big East basketball and football in their city than an NBA team.

P.S. This is rather irrelevant, but I still wouldn't count 490 as going to downtown Cleveland. You can take it without ever going by downtown (although you can see downtown from it). For example, you can take 90 East to 490 East to 77 South (or the reverse) without ever going right by downtown.

[MABCle]

Letterman is irrelevant. What about all the concerts whose only Ohio stop is Cleveland or Cleveland's museums that are unmatched by any in Ohio or Cleveland's top hospital branching out over the country and the world? Cincy is not experienceing mind blowing growth remember its still struggling like most midwestern cities. The perception may change, but trust, it won't be anytime soon. If/when Cleveland gets passed by Cincy it can pass up Cincy again in the future its really no big deal. What Ohioans should be worried about instead of bitchfighting between cities is how we can turn around the state's economy and national perceptions of this place as one big farm.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by MABCle

Letterman is irrelevant. What about all the concerts whose only Ohio stop is Cleveland or Cleveland's museums that are unmatched by any in Ohio or Cleveland's top hospital branching out over the country and the world? Cincy is not experienceing mind blowing growth remember its still struggling like most midwestern cities. The perception may change, but trust, it won't be anytime soon. If/when Cleveland gets passed by Cincy it can pass up Cincy again in the future its really no big deal. What Ohioans should be worried about instead of bitchfighting between cities is how we can turn around the state's economy and national perceptions of this place as one big farm.

Yeah - Cleveland is so great that it was ranked #285 by the very comprehensive Cities Ranked & Rated - LOL! Meanwhile, Cincy was 38th overall and 7th among major metros, and Columbus was 36th overall and 6th among major metros. No surprise that the Cincy and Columbus metros keep growing and the Cleveland metro keeps shrinking. There wouldn't be such a negative perception of Ohio's economy if NE Ohio wasn't dragging it down so much!

[wrightflyer]

Exactly! All this shows is a lousy "keeping up with the Jones" mentallity which is not something that midwesterners are known to have. Not being pushy, but we aren't suppose to be that east coast elitist. IMHO, I'd be happy in any of the three cities (ok, Cleveland's weather would be a no-no, but that would be it). Both cities have wonderful museums (but Cleveland does have a better orchestra) and both have their love for different sport teams (college and pro). Cinny has a wonderful teaching hospital and children's center. Each has wonderful amusement parks nearby. Both have their new and old money neighborhoods and depressed parts of town. All this goes for Columbus too. Yes, numbers can change and perceptions may shift but everyone should just remember that [insert city name], Ohio is on every mailing address.

[wrightflyer]

Originally Posted by OHBuckeye

There wouldn't be such a negative perception of Ohio's economy if NE Ohio wasn't dragging it down so much!

I would have to disagree. You cannot just confine NE Ohio to Cleveland. Youngstown contributes a lot in terms of depressed economies. That and each city core is having its share of problems. The growth is in suburban development. SE Ohio also seems to struggle. IMHO, ask any reasonable person with some knowledge of American geography and they probably would know Cinncy/CLE/CMH are all in Ohio.

[CTownNative]

At least we got more well known rappers than Cincinnati.Naw Im just playin even through it is true.I didn't even know what an MSA was till I read this post.So can anyone tell me what it is?

[MABCle]

MSA= Metropolitan Statistical area.

CSA is Combined statistical area.

there are also Micropolitan areas that are metros that consist of fewer than 50,000 people.

Oh Buckeye there is no reason to post in this thread any longer as you seem to want to boost Cincinnati at the expense of Cleveland. I could go on for days about why I think Cleveland is better than Cincinnati and always will be, or why it is unfair that Akron is not part of the Cleveland MSA even though people leaving Cuyahoga are moving to portage and Summit Counties. IMO Cleveland has it all over Cincy, layout, rail, amenities, Coastal location, and bigger name recognition. There's no need to continue.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

Exactly! All this shows is a lousy "keeping up with the Jones" mentallity which is not something that midwesterners are known to have. Not being pushy, but we aren't suppose to be that east coast elitist. IMHO, I'd be happy in any of the three cities (ok, Cleveland's weather would be a no-no, but that would be it). Both cities have wonderful museums (but Cleveland does have a better orchestra) and both have their love for different sport teams (college and pro). Cinny has a wonderful teaching hospital and children's center. Each has wonderful amusement parks nearby. Both have their new and old money neighborhoods and depressed parts of town. All this goes for Columbus too. Yes, numbers can change and perceptions may shift but everyone should just remember that [insert city name], Ohio is on every mailing address.

Very true. I would like to apologize for any part I had in making this thread somewhat inflammatory. I would, however, like to point out that the post I made that started this thread was neutral in tone - I was just pointing out something that I had just discovered - that the Cincy MSA would pass the Cleveland MSA in population this year. Then, the pro-Cleveland people started making excuses and turning it into a pissing contest, saying that Akron should be included in the Cleveland MSA, Cleveland "feels" bigger, Cleveland is perceived as bigger, Cleveland is better, etc. Regretfully, I made the poor choice of getting involved in the pissing contest, something that is all too easy to do on the internet. However, when people make unfactual, inflammatory statements such as "I'm sick of these people acting like 100,000 moved to CIncy since 2000 when all that happened was 2 micropolitan areas were added to the Cincinnati MSA," it is does tend to get the blood boiling; a few minutes of research is all it would have taken for that poster to find out that the Cincy MSA did gain 95,000 people from 2000-2006 over the same set of counties. At the very least, I hope I cleared up any misconceptions people had about the Cincy metro's growth, including the fact that the majority of it (nearly 60,000) has been in Ohio.