Hate for Ohio

[ram2]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Meanwhile, the past 20 years have been very good to the California coast, DC, NYC… places where not much gets “built”, but data gets generated, money gets moved around, papers shuffled. Ohio and places like Ohio are getting left behind. In poor states which have never prospered, this is no great tragedy. But Ohio did prosper once, and thus a creeping feeling of regret.

If you think the job market on the east coast is great, try getting a job in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Delaware, or anywhere in New York besides NYC.

DC is all government jobs.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Part of the problem is that 100 years ago, Ohio was relatively more prosperous, more important, more innovative and more visible. It was hugely important to technological innovation and manufacturing in America. It captured perfectly the great trends that moved America from an agrarian backwater into the world’s greatest power. For several generations, those trends have been moving in reverse. Now the Coasts dominate as major innovators, and South as the major magnet of residential relocation. The Midwest is getting hollowed-out, and Ohio’s plight is just a snapshot of the Midwest as a whole.

I moved to Ohio before the dot-com boom, when the Midwest was still known for its industry. This was in contrast to the paper-pushing East Coast. For a young engineer, Ohio seemed like a place where practical things still get built, and new machines need to be designed. Instead I caught two decades of decline. With the entire Midwest sinking, the various Midwestern states descend into acrid rivalry, exchanging vitriol amongst themselves, like bickering passengers on a sinking ship. This might explain the animosity between Michigan-Indiana-Ohio (and from earlier in this thread, Minnesota).

Meanwhile, the past 20 years have been very good to the California coast, DC, NYC… places where not much gets “built”, but data gets generated, money gets moved around, papers shuffled. Ohio and places like Ohio are getting left behind. In poor states which have never prospered, this is no great tragedy. But Ohio did prosper once, and thus a creeping feeling of regret.

Ohio is a milquetoast compromise between so many national extremes in the US. Straddling the median is by definition unexceptional and invites pejorative dismissal. This is the sense in which criticism of Ohio is unfair.

But Ohio is more than a snapshot of the Midwest. In many ways, it’s representative of America and how America contrasts with the world’s great bustling urban centers, be they in Europe or in the rising “third world”. To argue that Ohio is backward, excessively orthodox, boring and so forth, is a softer way of asserting that American culture has ceded vibrancy and leadership to others, while never attaining the sophistication of say Europe.

Ohio is still the 7th largest state economy and still one of the key manufacturing states, so I'm not sure that supports the idea that Ohio is getting left behind economically. Ohio, and indeed most of Middle America, has always been more or less ignored or dismissed by the coastal areas.

I also disagree with the idea that the Midwest is "sinking". A few cities here and there are still coming out of long term declines or still in them, but there are also plenty of cities that are doing well. The Dakotas are booming, cities like Columbus, Indy, Des Moines, Minneapolis, Omaha, Madison, etc. are all seeing healthy growth. Cincinnati may be growing again according to latest estimates while Dayton maybe have leveled off its losses. Even the cities considered to be in the worst shape, like Detroit and Cleveland, are seeing growth in their downtowns, and in Cleveland's case, a slowing of decline. The Midwest has maintained the lowest regional unemployment rates for most of the last 5 years. Ohio had one of the highest total job growth totals in 2012. None of these suggest that the Midwest is doing all that terribly. Are its cities having 35% growth rates per decade? No, but you don't need ridiculous population growth to be in a healthy position and moving in a positive direction.

[Pilotprincess]

Originally Posted by ksu sucks

There isn't a correct answer to this. But I've often wondered the same thing.

Perhaps part of the problem is that Ohio is almost perfectly sandwiched between two of the world's most interesting, innovative cites-- Chicago and NYC. A lot of Ohio's most successful "children" end up in one of these cities. Compared to either, Ohio does seem a tad dull.

The world is a big place. I could think of a lot places that suck much worse than Ohio.

Oh yeah, and then there's the weather.

California sucks way worse than any state. I'm trapped here.

[ohio_peasant]

Everyone's comments, including mine, will be slanted by personal experience.

My current personal experience is the environs of Dayton, Ohio. Dayton in the early 20th century was remarkably inventive and prosperous; the long list of "firsts" for Dayton need not be recited here. In the past 30 years, Dayton has suffered grievously, as one key manufacturing concern after another has left town, including companies that were founded here in the 19th century, flourished here and were pivotal to making the 20th century what it was.

My prior personal experiences are DC and NYC. I lived in the DC environs during the Reagan defense boom, watching farmland in what used to be the Virginia countryside get bulldozed, converted to townhouse tracts or 7-story office towers... year after year after year.

Those who state that DC is being bolstered by government spending, certainly have a point. However, right here in Dayton, about the only flourishing game in town is Wright-Patterson AFB and its cadre of contractors. I shudder to think what would happen to Dayton if Wright-Patt closed and government investment were to be taken elsewhere.

[Pilotprincess]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

That's ok. Starting with late fall through early spring Ohio has a LOT of cloudy, rainy, snowy days. That would be about half the year, give or take.

I used to live in LA and loved the sunny and 75 every single day winters. Of course there was a short rainy season in mid-winter. Though I do like my four season, I am getting to where excessive summer heat and excessive winter cold are somewhat of a drag.

I live in LA and it's hotter than hell here. I hate summer heat and would love a cooler climate. I also could live without earthquakes too.

[Pilotprincess]

Originally Posted by Pilotprincess

California sucks way worse than any state. I'm trapped here.

I always say this during a heatwave or after the ground I am standing on moves.👹.

[Rebek56]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

I would say the item I dislike the most about Ohio is its backward energy policy. It had to be forced to clean up its act with regard to its coal power plants as all the pollution drifted downwind into the Northeast less than a few deades ago. Now it is dealing with the natural gas fracking debacle and I have a feeling it won't end well due to little in the way of regs or zoning in the rural counties.

I have lived in Ohio or the adjoining part of West Virginia for thirty-plus years now and have to agree. Since this post more than two years ago, the energy politics of both states have become more fossil-fuel crazy, despite several problems at fracking sites.

Despite the generally horrifying politicians, however, many parts of Ohio are as beautiful as anyplace I've ever been. (Of course, I like big trees and sweet old houses, both of which exist in abundance throughout the state.)

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by ohio_peasant

Part of the problem is that 100 years ago, Ohio was relatively more prosperous, more important, more innovative and more visible. It was hugely important to technological innovation and manufacturing in America. It captured perfectly the great trends that moved America from an agrarian backwater into the world’s greatest power. For several generations, those trends have been moving in reverse. Now the Coasts dominate as major innovators, and South as the major magnet of residential relocation. The Midwest is getting hollowed-out, and Ohio’s plight is just a snapshot of the Midwest as a whole.

I moved to Ohio before the dot-com boom, when the Midwest was still known for its industry. This was in contrast to the paper-pushing East Coast. For a young engineer, Ohio seemed like a place where practical things still get built, and new machines need to be designed. Instead I caught two decades of decline. With the entire Midwest sinking, the various Midwestern states descend into acrid rivalry, exchanging vitriol amongst themselves, like bickering passengers on a sinking ship. This might explain the animosity between Michigan-Indiana-Ohio (and from earlier in this thread, Minnesota).

Meanwhile, the past 20 years have been very good to the California coast, DC, NYC… places where not much gets “built”, but data gets generated, money gets moved around, papers shuffled. Ohio and places like Ohio are getting left behind. In poor states which have never prospered, this is no great tragedy. But Ohio did prosper once, and thus a creeping feeling of regret.

Ohio is a milquetoast compromise between so many national extremes in the US. Straddling the median is by definition unexceptional and invites pejorative dismissal. This is the sense in which criticism of Ohio is unfair.

But Ohio is more than a snapshot of the Midwest. In many ways, it’s representative of America and how America contrasts with the world’s great bustling urban centers, be they in Europe or in the rising “third world”. To argue that Ohio is backward, excessively orthodox, boring and so forth, is a softer way of asserting that American culture has ceded vibrancy and leadership to others, while never attaining the sophistication of say Europe.

This is a great take. The coasts have a natural advantage in a global economy due to geographic proximity to foreign countries and shipping ports. I think one advantage the Great Lakes states have over the others is their water, which will be a great source of power this century. Now if only our politicians don't screw it up...

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by Natural510

I think one advantage the Great Lakes states have over the others is their water, which will be a great source of power this century. Now if only our politicians don't screw it up...

You mean like supporting pipelines to pump water from the lakes to the arid cities in the west?

If you read those forums, you'd be amazed at the number of people who really think that would be a good idea. "It's only about the cost ... "

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by IDtheftV

You mean like supporting pipelines to pump water from the lakes to the arid cities in the west?

If you read those forums, you'd be amazed at the number of people who really think that would be a good idea. "It's only about the cost ... "

It just depends on what the price of water is, right?

For my part, I would just prefer to see cities in the desert dry up and blow away.