Amazon Headquarters-II - The Potential cities include our region (Arlington: zoning, marketplace)

[Mike From NIU]

Originally Posted by ACWhite

Arlington and Alexandria also submitted a proposal that was part of the NoVA package. I could see how Amazon might go in that direction. It meets a lot of the criteria. There is a lot of vacant office space in Crystal City and Rosslyn, plus land that can be developed nearby.

I would sincerely doubt there is enough contiguous or closely located vacant office space in Arlington/Alexandria that could meet Amazon's demands. 8 million square feet (if that's truly the demand) is larger than the Pentagon (only ~6.6 million square feet).

[ACWhite]

Maybe not, but that depends on how Amazon weighs the distance (it’s close to DC space too) criterion vs the other criteria on which Arl-Alex rates higher than the Loudoun location. If lots of space and lower cost of living are high on the list, the midwestern locations beat Loudoun on those criteria. Is Amazon planning to hire a lot of young millennials? They’d clearly prefer ArlAx or DC to Loudoun for activities, etc., and might prefer the midwestern locations where they can get much nicer housing for a lower price than Loudoun could offer.

[lchoro]

Amazon Web Services will also have a new campus one block from the new Herndon-Monroe metro station also, one stop from the proposed Dulles site. It is expected to house 1,500 employees.

https://wtop.com/business-finance/2017/06/14159886/

Woodland Park is a small mixed-use complex with office, apartments, townhouses, and stores anchored by Harris-Teeter. It would be on the other side of the Toll Road from the propose HQ site.

[paytonc]

Originally Posted by Mike From NIU

I would sincerely doubt there is enough contiguous or closely located vacant office space in Arlington/Alexandria that could meet Amazon's demands.

The RFP states that 0.5-1.0 million square feet are needed in 2019 (i.e., ASAP). Crystal City has 2 million square feet vacant now. Its owner confirms that there's sufficient room for the entire campus within walking distance; Arlington will allow up to 5 million additional square feet of offices within Crystal City, and zoning is in place for more offices in Pentagon City and Potomac Yard.

I work in commercial real estate. 8 million square feet is harder to envision in the exurbs, where parking and road access limit office development far more than land availability does in the core. Sure, there's more land... but the allowable FAR/density is typically 90-95% lower, so you need 10-20X as much land.

There's 9X as much office space in DC as in Loudoun County. Just NoMA + Capitol Hill (forget the entire NW quadrant!), or the little City of Alexandria, both have more office space than all of Loudoun.

[lchoro]

The proposal includes Fairfax and Fairfax's office market is bigger than the above combined. Vacant office space in the county exceeds twice that of the proposal. 1-2 new office towers in the Reston Town Center or near the Wiehle Avenue Reston station would meet the initial office space requirements for Amazon. I could easily see the county approving the same type of density on the CIT property and the 26 acres adjacent to it.

[avakid]

Tyson's sounds like the best of both worlds. An increasingly urban area with metro access to DC. 15-20 mins drive to D.C. , 15 mins to Dulles Airport, close enough to the suburbs to support families, close enough to the city to support the young/hip crowd.

However if they truly want an urban atmosphere then they should go with Alexandria and get what is left of Potomac Yards. Maryland just seems out of the question; Silver Spring may have the "cool" factor, but it's simply not as desirable as the other locations, plus is relatively far to the nearby airports and Downtown DC. VA's big advantage over MD is that when you enter D.C. you directly enter the Downtown Core

[NOVA_guy]

Originally Posted by avakid

Tyson's sounds like the best of both worlds. An increasingly urban area with metro access to DC. 15-20 mins drive to D.C. , 15 mins to Dulles Airport, close enough to the suburbs to support families, close enough to the city to support the young/hip crowd.

However if they truly want an urban atmosphere then they should go with Alexandria and get what is left of Potomac Yards. Maryland just seems out of the question; Silver Spring may have the "cool" factor, but it's simply not as desirable as the other locations, plus is relatively far to the nearby airports and Downtown DC. VA's big advantage over MD is that when you enter D.C. you directly enter the Downtown Core

The thing is, it depends on what you consider desirable.

A lot of people, especially young people, see NoVa as sterile and cookie cutter. Silver Spring, Bethesda and MoCo in general doesn't really have that problem. I still think they have the upper-hand with Amazon, with NoVa closely behind and DC as third but we'll see.

[NC211]

Originally Posted by paytonc

The RFP states that 0.5-1.0 million square feet are needed in 2019 (i.e., ASAP). Crystal City has 2 million square feet vacant now. Its owner confirms that there's sufficient room for the entire campus within walking distance; Arlington will allow up to 5 million additional square feet of offices within Crystal City, and zoning is in place for more offices in Pentagon City and Potomac Yard.

I work in commercial real estate. 8 million square feet is harder to envision in the exurbs, where parking and road access limit office development far more than land availability does in the core. Sure, there's more land... but the allowable FAR/density is typically 90-95% lower, so you need 10-20X as much land.

There's 9X as much office space in DC as in Loudoun County. Just NoMA + Capitol Hill (forget the entire NW quadrant!), or the little City of Alexandria, both have more office space than all of Loudoun.

I too work in CRE (I finance it), and while I agree with nearly all of what you're saying, I am willing to bet the farm (pun intended) that Loudoun would issue a few dozen exceptions for FAR/Density to land this bid. In terms of infrastructure, trust me, Loudoun knows how to put in infrastructure in a moment's notice. They've been doing it for the past 10 years. The trick with Loudoun is the Greenway and making sure you don't create a viable transportation option that would essentially put the main arterial roadway that runs through it into bankruptcy and force the state to take it over (since it's privately owned).


True that Crystal City is essentially under new ownership/management these days, and there are massive plans in the works for the next decade+ that will ultimately transform it out of the old 1970's government era into a, "wharf-lite" area, you still can't create that "campus" atmosphere that this RFP for Amazon is eluding too. There has to be some sense of continuity to the facility, and a bit of isolation for security purposes as well. I don't see Amazon agreeing to something where they're in one building and in another building that is 3 building away from each other with no control on who is in those buildings in between.


Again, 8m square feet is essentially 2 Willis Towers (Sears Tower). In terms of height restrictions, Willis Tower is nearly 7x's taller than the tallest commercial building ever allowed in all of Washington DC.


If you assume an average FAR of 500,000 per building allowed, that's a campus of 16 buildings to meet that 8m request. To me, that means land, and a lot of it.

[LuvVA]

Amazon: We're not considering independent HQ2 bids in Northern Virginia


http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/e/247561...E6OjQwNjA4NDM4

[Deeman804]

Originally Posted by NC211

I too work in CRE (I finance it), and while I agree with nearly all of what you're saying, I am willing to bet the farm (pun intended) that Loudoun would issue a few dozen exceptions for FAR/Density to land this bid. In terms of infrastructure, trust me, Loudoun knows how to put in infrastructure in a moment's notice. They've been doing it for the past 10 years. The trick with Loudoun is the Greenway and making sure you don't create a viable transportation option that would essentially put the main arterial roadway that runs through it into bankruptcy and force the state to take it over (since it's privately owned).


True that Crystal City is essentially under new ownership/management these days, and there are massive plans in the works for the next decade+ that will ultimately transform it out of the old 1970's government era into a, "wharf-lite" area, you still can't create that "campus" atmosphere that this RFP for Amazon is eluding too. There has to be some sense of continuity to the facility, and a bit of isolation for security purposes as well. I don't see Amazon agreeing to something where they're in one building and in another building that is 3 building away from each other with no control on who is in those buildings in between.


Again, 8m square feet is essentially 2 Willis Towers (Sears Tower). In terms of height restrictions, Willis Tower is nearly 7x's taller than the tallest commercial building ever allowed in all of Washington DC.


If you assume an average FAR of 500,000 per building allowed, that's a campus of 16 buildings to meet that 8m request. To me, that means land, and a lot of it.

i strongly disagree with the statement in bold. You can still have a campus area while having other entities within the campus area of buildings. This happens a lot at urban areas particularly with residential buildings. Also, the scenario described is exactly how Amazon’s Seattle campus is laid out and one of their stated preferences is “similar layout to Amazon’s Seattle campus”.

Another big point is that JBG Smith owns most of the buildings in Crystal City. In the long term, They can opt not to renew leases or, more likely, offer incentives to relocate businesses that are in the right-of-way of the Amazon’s development pattern while remaining in Crystal City or another JBG Smith property nearby.