Rail Service: Scranton - New York URGENT! (transporting, how much)

[W-B proud]

In a nutshell, I just think that the price tag is way too high for this project, and the need and demand are way to low. I think I read somewhere that a projected 40 people would use this train daily to commute to Manhattan from Scranton by 2025! You can buy each one of those people thier own personal private jet for that much money! This isn't a large metro area, it is actually shrinking, and there isn't even serious traffic congestion around here unless they are doing construction, on a normal day traffic moves very smoothly even at hush hour. I think this project is more about image and want, then it is about actual need. We already have buses that are half empty that go to and from NYC everyday, and most people have personal cars to get to and from NYC. In larger cities, trains are necessary because of congestion, and no parking, and people don't own cars because there is nowhere to park unless you pay hundreds of dollars for a parking garage. We do not have any of these problems in Scranton or NEPA. We have buses now that aren't filled to capacity. Take one of them! It's cheaper, it's more convenient, it's quicker ect., and we don't have to pay extravagant taxes to maintain them because it is privately owned. I just don't see why people want these trains so bad, especially for the price tag. I think it has much more to do with some in Scranton wanting a "big city" image. Yeah, well let Scranton and Chris doherty raise the funding for thes "big city" style trains. Don't tax me for them, I'll never ride one!

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by W-B proud

This isn't a large metro area, it is actually shrinking, and there isn't even serious traffic congestion around here unless they are doing construction, on a normal day traffic moves very smoothly even at hush hour.

With all due respect while I concur with most of the rest of your reply some of this is inaccurate. The metropolitan area is no longer "shrinking." Conversely it has been growing for the past several years, and I expect that even though the 2010 Census will show a drop from 2000 (thanks to huge losses in the first five years of the decade off-setting the modest gains in the latter half of the decade), the 2020 Census SHOULD show a respectable GAIN in population in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre over 2010. A lot of Pocono natives who resent the transplant influx have been moving into Lackawanna and Luzerne Counties (areas like Mt. Cobb, Moscow, Bear Creek, White Haven, etc.) in recent years to avoid that "city influence," they kvetch about so much, as well as, in some cases, because the cost-of-living in Monroe County has now priced them out. Some others who moved from NYC/NJ to the Poconos years ago are now moving closer to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre so they don't have to drive as far on the weekends for shopping, dining, nightlife, sports, movies, etc. I even predict both Scranton and Wilkes-Barre proper will see their decades-long population declines ebb around 2015 (for Scranton) and 2020 (for Wilkes-Barre), at which point even both CITIES will be growing again.

Also, maybe in your neighborhood traffic congestion isn't bad, but I can recall some truly HEINOUS commutes along Route 315 from my home in Pittston Township and along I-81 to either Wilkes-Barre or Scranton (along with Route 309/Cross-Valley when I was going to work/college). There were times I had to sit through several light cycles at rush-hour to get through the congested intersection of Highway 315 @ Oak/Keystone in Pittston Twp., and I was even rear-ended here at a red light in 2005. I still wonder if my occasional head aches and back pain are a lingering result of that, but I believe the statute of limitations for filing a medical claim has passed by now anyways. I-81 is ALWAYS under construction because the morons at PennDOT can't do things right the FIRST TIME (i.e. the SAME stupid bridges had "emergency repairs" every other week for many months!) Ultimately I-81 should be widened to six lanes through the metro, light rail should be considered to link Downtown Scranton with Downtown Wilkes-Barre (with a stop in Downtown Pittston and potential spurs to Clarks Summit, Dallas, Carbondale, and Nanticoke), and/or I-476 should be TOLL FREE between Clarks Summit and Pittston. Granted though the traffic in NEPA is tame to what I battle here in NoVA (I saw a traffic jam THIS MORNING coming back from my run out in the country---thankfully I was headed towards the city).

Overall though we're in for serious traffic issues as an entire NATION in the coming years. Not only are more people moving to America (equating to more drivers on the road each year), but people continue to move further into the sprawl away from work, school, and shopping, people are living longer and driving longer, and more teenagers are driving as soon as they can to get themselves to work because parents are too busy power-commuting and don't have time to drive them to after-school jobs that they obviously can't walk to. What's the solution? If we weren't in this terrible recession I'd say we'd need to spend billions to mass transit the hell out of this country, but, ultimately, we can't afford that right now, which means in 10 years traffic problems are just going to be WORSE. Rush-hour traffic may be "tolerable" now between Scranton and Wilkes-Barre on I-81, but in ten years it will be a near-crawl along much of that stretch, especially with the thousands of jobs coming right off I-81 in Pittston Twp. at CenterPoint!

[MovingOutOfNJ]

I would concur with those who feel a Rail/Light Rail from Scranton to Wilkes Barre(to harrisburg to connect to amtrak,?) would better serve NEPA then a train to NYC.. but as a Jersey Boy that goes home to see the fam alot.. i pray this train to NYC gets the golden approval and they start putting shovels in the dirt asap lol

so again.. NYC train - beneficial to the NJ/NY Natives who go to see their families, and their families who will go see them, as well as the handful of commuters and tourists...

SWB/H-Burg Rail - beneficial to NEPA as a whole.

[Trucker7]

The problem with rail is that, not only it is expensive to build, but it is also expensive to maintain. Most public transit systems across the nation are not profitable and depend on taxpayer subsidizes to operate. I used to work at NJ Transit. Out of the 14 rail lines that operate there, only one actually makes a profit, which is the Trenton to NYC line which returns 115% of its operating costs. The worst is the Philadelphia to Atlantic City line which returns about 20% of its operating costs.

[Trucker7]

It might be nice to have a rail around, but it is nicer to pay low taxes for not having to maintain a rail around.

[Magritte25]

There are extenuating benefits besides profitability of public transport that make it desirable for a region.

[weluvpa]

Like what? What benefits could the train have for Scranton that would out way weigh the cost to the taxpayers?

Please do not say that it would bring more families here, because thats not a helpful thing for Scranton. Scranton needs to change its taxing structures so that we can help stop the exodus of residents from the city.

Replacing the fleeing residents of Scranton with train loads of tranplants from NJ and NY is not a benefit to the city.

If you don't believe me then ask some people that live in the poconos or Strousburg.

[BLUEDIAMOND64]

Railroads are not profitable because they are publicly subsidized, this is only the case for Amtrak, the nation's passenger rail carrier, which receives annual subsidies (but it is in no profitable). Private freight railroads pay for all of their own maintenance and capital improvement projects although they do sometimes receive federal help for the latter (for instance, at present, Norfolk Southern is working on a massive upgrading of its main line through Virginia, West Virginia, and Ohio known as the Heartland Corridor project, which is partially federally funded).

In any event, in regards to the passenger industry, Amtrak receives almost nothing compared to the airlines and highways (about $2 billion annually). So, while the carrier does receive government subsidies, if they were more along the lines of what highways and airlines receive we would have a much more efficient and prosperous passenger rail system in this country (it should also be noted that by its very nature, passenger rail is rarely profitable, which is why the private freight railroads jumped ship and shed the service back in the early 1970s, so to be efficient, it needs to be subsidized). Sources used: see below

Was curious, we have not even discussed "eminent domain" but surely people would lose their homes if the corridor was ever constructed.


http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/M…
http://www.american-rails.com/passenger-…

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Like what? What benefits could the train have for Scranton that would out way weigh the cost to the taxpayers?

Please do not say that it would bring more families here, because thats not a helpful thing for Scranton. Scranton needs to change its taxing structures so that we can help stop the exodus of residents from the city.

Replacing the fleeing residents of Scranton with train loads of tranplants from NJ and NY is not a benefit to the city.

If you don't believe me then ask some people that live in the poconos or Strousburg.

You are so right Dan. She has yet to come up with a reason about how it would benefit the region. We already established that only 6 percent, and I can't believe it's that high, commute to NY. And people taking shopping trips isn't enough to justify our taxes going up and bringing more undesirables to the area.

[BLUEDIAMOND64]

Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008

You are so right Dan. She has yet to come up with a reason about how it would benefit the region. We already established that only 6 percent, and I can't believe it's that high, commute to NY. And people taking shopping trips isn't enough to justify our taxes going up and bringing more undesirables to the area.

Six percent is going to be a hard sell. Many of the people that have the high powered six figure salaries come from wealthy areas of New York and Connecticut. In fact during my time working for the RR, back in the day - The State of Connecticut had so much money they actually had their own Bar Car.