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My heart goes out to all the folks out there, struggling to make it in the city. It's definitely the conditions and this recession will take a good 5 to 10 years to reverse.
The metrics are out there in the housing market, it's heading for the rock bottom and it's been a gradual decline. Pundits keeps speaking about bottoming in 2013/2014, which means the downtrend is going to be prolonging and won't be quick. Housing is key to an economy.
Why don't some of you move out of the area? Some states seem to have been recovering faster. I recommended CO to someone and he's been living great since. One can actually get richer in other states, rather than struggling here with tools who tend to exploit the unemployed workforce. Just saying...
This is good advice. No one knows like me how much it sucks b&lls to get up and leave a city you've just started to establish yourself in. But I think I will look back on it as being a wise move in the long run. I went back to school for my MAcc (Master's in Accounting) and CMA designation. In NYC I was competing with a bachelor's, paralegal certification, and about 3 years of legal experience.
I thought that would be enough to score something decent. But I found myself sitting in offices on Wall Street and Madison Avenue getting offers of $9 per hour (a supposed 'hot job', reviewing murder evidence for one of the top defense lawyers in the city). Another that stands out in my mind is 18K per year as a real estate paralegal. I remember being all dressed up in a suit with my black Coach briefcase, trying to hop on the subway without crying and making a fool out of myself. It wasn't the way my life was supposed to go.
I got past those feelings when I left NYC. I just realized it was not me. I was looking for a job in the worst economy since the 1930s. You have to adapt and not turn that anger inward if you are to succeed in this environment. It totally sucks, but sometimes it makes sense to just bite that bullet and go to a regional market (perhaps closer to home but still urban). Or to retrain and then enter that regional market, like me. COL for one month in Chicago with one roommate, in a good neighborhood, no car for me: $1,500. Same thing in NYC except three roommates, not one: $2,250. Trust me, I calculated everything into that lol. That's just bare-bones living without the luxuries and extras in that figure. I could lower the NYC cost by going into a transitional neighborhood. But I've been there, done that and refuse to ever live that way again.
Think about what is going to get you the furthest in ten years, not one. You don't want to end up in a situation that's less than what you really wanted just because you had to prove something that nobody truly cared about to begin with. Maybe the answer now that the market is improving is to simply give it a deadline, perhaps six months or a year. Whatever makes sense. Just take a red pen, put that date on your calendar and say 'If things haven't panned out by then, I'm out'. And then find that plan B. For me personally, I would love to come back to NYC one day. But I will only do it when I am at senior level, and the salary is enough to justify the move (no less than 150K). That figure isn't crazy when you really think about it enough.
Last edited by EastBoundandDownChick; 05-18-2011 at 11:22 AM..
This is good advice. No one knows like me how much it sucks b&lls to get up and leave a city you've just started to establish yourself in. But I think I will look back on it as being a wise move in the long run. I went back to school for my MAcc (Master's in Accounting) and CMA designation. In NYC I was competing with a bachelor's, paralegal certification, and about 3 years of legal experience.
I thought that would be enough to score something decent. But I found myself sitting in offices on Wall Street and Madison Avenue getting offers of $9 per hour (a supposed 'hot job', reviewing murder evidence for one of the top defense lawyers in the city). Another that stands out in my mind is 18K per year as a real estate paralegal. I remember being all dressed up in a suit with my black Coach briefcase, trying to hop on the subway without crying and making a fool out of myself. It wasn't the way my life was supposed to go.
I got past those feelings when I left NYC. I just realized it was not me. I was looking for a job in the worst economy since the 1930s. You have to adapt and not turn that anger inward if you are to succeed in this environment. It totally sucks, but sometimes it makes sense to just bite that bullet and go to a regional market (perhaps closer to home but still urban). Or to retrain and then enter that regional market, like me. COL for one month in Chicago with one roommate, in a good neighborhood, no car for me: $1,500. Same thing in NYC except three roommates, not one: $2,250. Trust me, I calculated everything into that lol. That's just bare-bones living without the luxuries and extras in that figure. I could lower the NYC cost by going into a transitional neighborhood. But I've been there, done that and refuse to ever live that way again.
Think about what is going to get you the furthest in ten years, not one. You don't want to end up in a situation that's less than what you really wanted just because you had to prove something that nobody truly cared about to begin with. Maybe the answer now that the market is improving is to simply give it a deadline, perhaps six months or a year. Whatever makes sense. Just take a red pen, put that date on your calendar and say 'If things haven't panned out by then, I'm out'. And then find that plan B. For me personally, I would love to come back to NYC one day. But I will only do it when I am at senior level, and the salary is enough to justify the move (no less than 150K). That figure isn't crazy when you really think about it enough.
I didn't know you moved out.
This is my philosophy. I chase the money. I will put myself where the job and money are.
Unfortunately, for some people it's the thrill of being in NYC and they end up waiting it out. Again, chase the money and the job, thrill later. It works like a charm.
I was in the area in 2008 in the Lehmann crash. Butted out on a cross country tour. Found a gem of a job in CO, and made a crazy move from CT all the way to Denver. Enjoyed the mountains, the tranquility and now I'm back here.
That's how I came to know CO was recovering fast. And it's a great area to be in
This is my philosophy. I chase the money. I will put myself where the job and money are.
Unfortunately, for some people it's the thrill of being in NYC and they end up waiting it out. Again, chase the money and the job, thrill later. It works like a charm.
I was in the area in 2008 in the Lehmann crash. Butted out on a cross country tour. Found a gem of a job in CO, and made a crazy move from CT all the way to Denver. Enjoyed the mountains, the tranquility and now I'm back here.
That's how I came to know CO was recovering fast. And it's a great area to be in
Again, excellent advice. A lot of people on this thread are making some very good points. Go for the professional opportunities now, the thrill of the bright lights later. So true.
Good for you on making the move to CO post-crash. I have never been there but some of my buddies from school settled down out there. It looks like a beautiful place to live!
I'm not sure if I agree 100% with move thing since that's typically more for bit established professionals with some experience and some cash under the belt. For those who are recently out of college, most default to moving in with parents til they get stand on their feet by getting a job. Moving around the country to find an entry level job is pretty hard for someone with no cash and presumably with education debt unless someone pays for that. I think even those who did get on their stand shortly after college need to save up a bit before they can take on venture to move out to greener pasture to find a better job.
For others like myself and two above posters who are more experienced and have presumably have more cash saved. We can make the jump. I'm in same category, moved out of Queens to NJ for a job in 2007. Now I made the jump back to NY for a new job in Brooklyn and moved back.
I do definitely agree, if you can go where the professional opportunities are. Do it while you are young. Once you have families and stuff then its a bit different story. Only other thing I can add on top of that is though depending on where the company is or which company it is does make a big difference on amount of experience and knowledge you could absorb. A company in middle of nowhere with no or very small talent pool nearby isn't going to be challenging and competitive as company in middle of somewhere with big talent pool nearby.
Yes, unless you are moving back in with your parents I agree- just take a bunch of crap jobs for awhile, work your tail off. Save the money and then leave. And if an employer asks why were you working at such-and-such place that is below your skill level- tell them! And if they don't like it tell them to shove it up their a$$. Don't give up your real search while doing this, of course. I know it's a balancing act and how hard it is. Very easy to get burned out, but the only real solution.
Yes some companies are really low balling, they want you to have a BA, Series 7&63 and only temp job paying 40K, I was like what are you guys smoking? I completely refuse I feel like they are just testing waters eithers its the recruiters or the actual firms but once enough people start refusing than they have to start paying more. The market has to adjust itself, simple laws of economics.
It's absolutely insane that some of these companies now are requiring a BS for an admin job where you will be typing and answering phones all day. It's seriously laughable. AND the low salaries to boot. I can see if they were offering in the upper 80s or 90s for those really intense executive administrative roles (which I wouldn't want anyway, talk about selling your soul to the devil) but for a BS paying job???
I have been doing admin/legal work for over 15 years. But I am not qualified for some of those positions because I don't have a degree. It's very discouraging.
My phone used to ring off the hook when I was looking for a job several years ago, now, I have been looking and only received one call, and after the interview, nothing.
I'm only 35 so I know it's not my age, and my experience is excellent. I'm thinking of just going back to school to start a real career instead of these stupid jobs.
It's absolutely insane that some of these companies now are requiring a BS for an admin job where you will be typing and answering phones all day. It's seriously laughable. AND the low salaries to boot. I can see if they were offering in the upper 80s or 90s for those really intense executive administrative roles (which I wouldn't want anyway, talk about selling your soul to the devil) but for a BS paying job???
I have been doing admin/legal work for over 15 years. But I am not qualified for some of those positions because I don't have a degree. It's very discouraging.
My phone used to ring off the hook when I was looking for a job several years ago, now, I have been looking and only received one call, and after the interview, nothing.
I'm only 35 so I know it's not my age, and my experience is excellent. I'm thinking of just going back to school to start a real career instead of these stupid jobs.
It's not the jobs that are stupid. It's the market and the way it brainwashes employers. Since when did having a degree equal being bright and articulate? I know plenty of individuals who never went to college that are much smarter than some of their graduate counterparts. It shouldn't be a requirement for many of these positions but more of a 'plus' to add to real experience and proven ability.
I was a paralegal and left the field to go back for my accounting degree. I suspected the field was dead back in 2008. Not only because of the market collapsing, but also the ABA sanctioning the outsourcing of legal work at the exact same time. Talk about sticking it to you when you're already bent over...
You sound like a very intelligent person. It is disgusting that someone like you can't find a good paying job. Just another reinforcer to let the rest on this forum know- it's probably not YOU, it's this crap-ass market we're in. Let's hope this 'recovery' continues and better days are ahead. And that every person here stuck getting taken advantage of by their employer can jump ship and leave that employer scrambling to find someone else. Then maybe they'll realize underpaying people isn't really all that cost efficient!
It's not the jobs that are stupid. It's the market and the way it brainwashes employers. Since when did having a degree equal being bright and articulate? I know plenty of individuals who never went to college that are much smarter than some of their graduate counterparts. It shouldn't be a requirement for many of these positions but more of a 'plus' to add to real experience and proven ability.
I was a paralegal and left the field to go back for my accounting degree. I suspected the field was dead back in 2008. Not only because of the market collapsing, but also the ABA sanctioning the outsourcing of legal work at the exact same time. Talk about sticking it to you when you're already bent over...
You sound like a very intelligent person. It is disgusting that someone like you can't find a good paying job. Just another reinforcer to let the rest on this forum know- it's probably not YOU, it's this crap-ass market we're in. Let's hope this 'recovery' continues and better days are ahead. And that every person here stuck getting taken advantage of by their employer can jump ship and leave that employer scrambling to find someone else. Then maybe they'll realize underpaying people isn't really all that cost efficient!
You are so right. (and thanks for the compliment - ).
I am actually fortunate that I am employed right now, just not really happy where I am. But I do get paid a decent salary (mid 50s, which is ok with me, even though I feel I deserve more) and I have good health benefits (which I don't have to contribute anything to, my employer pays 100%). I live on Staten Island and commute to Manhattan. My rent is $900 per month for a nice one bedroom in a private house in a decent area, and I split that rent with my boyfriend....
BUT I do plan on leaving NYC soon. I agree with what you said in one of your posts above about being dressed up, jumping on trains and just feeling like "this can't be it, can it??".
Hopefully life has more to offer me in the future.
I'm thinking of just going back to school to start a real career instead of these stupid jobs.
That's what a lot of people do when the job market hits the toilet. The risk is getting yourself into huge debt going for the grad degree, losing out on two years of income by going full time, and then ultimately not having it pay off in the end with a high paying job (but you still get the huge student loan payment though )
If it sounds like I'm not too bullish on higher education right now, it's because I'm not. It's been grossly demeaned and turned into a huge racket designed to make everyone else rich except you. Ask half the people with recent law degrees how they feel about it and you're sure to get an ear full. Not saying you shouldn't try to better yourself, but be very careful with that. Student loan debt is the most toxic you can have. if you can pay most of it out of pocket, that's a much better proposition.
The only reason I went to grad school is because I have the means to do so without incurring debt. I don't think I would have gone otherwise. I worry accounting is going to be like the new legal field (in terms of market oversaturation, lack of opportunities, and suppressed wages despite high education costs). Hopefully I'm wrong on that one!
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. But I am not qualified for some of those positions because I don't have a degree. It's very discouraging. 
).
