Is NJ Suburbs of Philly really expensive? (Linden, Lindenwold: real estate, crime)
New Jersey Suburbs of PhiladelphiaBurlington County, Camden County, Gloucester County, Salem County in South Jersey
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I have been in discussions and seen it over the web as well where NJ is said to be more expensive. May be or may be not.
But for now I would like to hear what people think about when NJ suburbs of Philadelphia are compared to PA suburbs of Philadelphia.
My take is, that they are pretty much same when compared holistically in terms of real estate value, real estate taxes, home age, school districts, state tax and general expenses.
I am not saying both are same in all the above categories but what I mean is when you take all those factors together it gets nearly the same.
Thoughts?
Are places like Collingswood and Westmont still undervalued? It's legit easier to get to Center City from a PATCO town than it is from many sections of Philadelphia, to say nothing of the PA side burbs. And yet they still haven't caught on.
Related question: what's the deal with Lindenwold? As a mostly life long South Jerseyan, it has, as far as I know, a bad reputation. But there are direct trains to Philly and AC and Trulia suggests there are affordable homes and a somewhat crime free map (depending on if you look above or below the station.)
...actually looking at Lindenwold proper the crime map is bad. But the station is practically in Voorhees.
Are places like Collingswood and Westmont still undervalued? It's legit easier to get to Center City from a PATCO town than it is from many sections of Philadelphia, to say nothing of the PA side burbs. And yet they still haven't caught on.
Related question: what's the deal with Lindenwold? As a mostly life long South Jerseyan, it has, as far as I know, a bad reputation. But there are direct trains to Philly and AC and Trulia suggests there are affordable homes and a somewhat crime free map (depending on if you look above or below the station.)
...actually looking at Lindenwold proper the crime map is bad. But the station is practically in Voorhees.
Not sure, because I'm not looking at prices in that area. Lindnwald, like a lot of areas, used to be a nice place to live.
They are roughly the same, but I have noticed that certain things are cheaper in Southern NJ....gasoline (yes, even with the new added tax) and groceries are 2 that come to mind.
As for property taxes, NJ has the highest in the country, but when you are comparing NJ suburbs to PA, it really depends on the town. For example, West Chester in PA has pretty low property taxes, but other towns like Elkins Park and Drexel Hill have very high taxes that rival NJ's. I know this because at one time we were researching into possibly moving to PA from NJ.
Generally speaking, for similar size homes in similar towns with similar quality schools, PA home values will be higher, and NJ property taxes will be higher. I would say that PA has a few more towns in the very high income bracket. Haddonfield is probably the richest town in SJ, but there are some areas in PA that blow Haddonfield out of the water...think like Villanova as one example, but for similarly wealthy towns, the above generalization applies.
State income tax is another point of comparison for SJ VS. PA. PA charges a flat rate for all income, while Jersey uses a graduated bracket system, same in principle to federal. So if you live in SJ and are lower income, it may be cheaper and you pay less state income tax. But as your income grows, you eventually cross a point where you will pay more if you live in NJ.
If you work in Philly though, you can deduct your Philly wage tax from your NJ state income tax. You don't get to do that in PA, so there are some savings there. But also remember you will be paying bridge tolls, assuming you drive and don't use the limited train options SJ has. Driving is toll free in PA to Philly unless you use the PA Turnpike. Train wise, commuting on PATCO is cheaper than SEPTA.
As noted above, even with the tax increase, gas is still cheaper in SJ.
So you can see, there really is no straight answer. You kind of have to take it on an individual basis.
I think you will find that homes in Southeastern PA are generally more expensive vs. SJ, in some cases by significant amounts. Compare the average house in Plymouth Meeting or even Collegeville (30 miles from Center and no rail access close by) to homes in Cherry Hill (easy highway and PATCO access to CC).
That being said, property taxes in Cherry Hill are very high while in Plymouth Meeting they are modest and in Collegeville not much worse than PM.
Generally speaking, PA is a cheaper state with SEPA being the most expensive part, while NJ is generally an expensive state with SJ being the cheapest part.
Gas is cheaper in SJ, and I believe alcohol is as well. But, cigarettes are cheaper in PA. SEPTA is underrated by many in SJ I feel who think that only PATCO gets them to CC quickly. There are many walkable communities in SEPA with rail access to CC, door-to-door, in 40 minutes or less. I think is partially why home prices are higher. Plus, the suburbs of SEPA have a much more robust job market, and there's tons more colleges. SJ provides better access in general to CC and NYC and of course the shore as well. I think if Philadelphia had a more robust job market, SJ prices would rise despite the higher property taxes.
If you are high income and live and work in SJ chances are you will pay much more in state income taxes vs. being high income and living and working in PA (not Philadelphia).
Is the higher tax also a delusion?
Obviously taxes are a very subjective matter but just for the sake of discussion if I take a very basic example of married couple filing jointly with taxable income, tax comes out to be:
100K*0.05525-2775=$2750 which is 2.75% of 100K
On the same calculation 150k taxable income equates to tax of 5512.50 (3.675%)
Is the higher tax also a delusion?
Obviously taxes are a very subjective matter but just for the sake of discussion if I take a very basic example of married couple filing jointly with taxable income, tax comes out to be:
100K*0.05525-2775=$2750 which is 2.75% of 100K
On the same calculation 150k taxable income equates to tax of 5512.50 (3.675%)
No. For a married filing jointly return, the NJ rate is much higher than the PA rate. Of course NJ does allow for certain deductions, but if you are a higher income earner, your NJ income tax rates will easily be higher than a (suburban) PA rate.
No. For a married filing jointly return, the NJ rate is much higher than the PA rate. Of course NJ does allow for certain deductions, but if you are a higher income earner, your NJ income tax rates will easily be higher than a (suburban) PA rate.
Based on the link you gave, I did these calculations:
(100K*0.05525)-2775=$2750 which is 2.75% of 100K
On the same calculation 150k taxable income equates to tax of 5512.50 (3.675%)
Unless your income is way up higher in 200s, it would not be a big difference.
As as always, taxes are very subjective matter.
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