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It would have had more weight had the real conflict not been about who was stronger or who had the most hit points, but about who was right.
Ares corrupted humanity, so now he wants to get rid of humanity because they are corrupt. Huh?
Hippolyta told (a very young) Diana that it was Ares who corrupted humanity. Even if she believes that, who says she is right? Ares says he did not, and I think the audience is expected to believe him. And it makes sense that Zeus might have created humanity as imperfect; after all, he is also the father of Ares, who (being a murderer of his siblings) is hardly an example of perfection himself.
The story is about Diana's coming of age, and a big part of that for most people is the discovery that your parents haven't always told you the truth (often because, being imperfect themselves, they honestly didn't know it).
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
I thought the casting of the God of War as an old Victorian Brit was an inventive bit of intelligence. The phrase "banality of evil" comes to mind.
The men plotting, declaring, and perpetuating wars are not scowling, glowering, medal-bedecked Huns, they are the bland men in business suits.
The board won't allow you to give me a rep point for this, but I have to give this post an enthusiastic YES!
Just finish this great movie last week and enjoy the Sia song in the end!! "Is she with you" is incredible in the movie. Gotta re-watch again in this weekends!
I just don’t see that. And I say that as someone who absolutely loved the first two Cap films. They still number among my favorite of the super hero genre.
Fair enough but it was far too on the nose with me. They may have similar origins in the sense of early storylines. Not that most characters didn't fight Nazis by that point. I think even Batman did from time to time.
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But both Captain America and Wonder Woman have their origins in WWII comics. If they were ripping each other off, that deed was done 70+ years ago. If anything, I salute WW’s attempt to distance itself from that by moving back to WWI. That was meant to be the “war to end all wars,†which is WW’s essential calling.
They did as I stated before but the problem I find is that the look and the beats of the World War 1 Wonder Woman was far too close to home to WW2 Captain America: The First Avenger
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And I must admit, as a man with an unblemished record of male heterosexuality, I’d much rather watch Gal Gadot in a silly costume than Chris Evans. The fact that Gadot absolutely nailed the part just makes it all the better.
Gal was not the problem with the film, it mainly was the stupid writing that tried to push Wonder Woman into a First Avenger spec script.
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Yup. And I know that Drama demands a final confrontation between protagonist and antagonist. I’m just getting tired of it always being Good Guy punches Bad Guy till Bad Guy falls down.
Yeah that was partially why The Winter Soldier, Civil War, Doctor Strangge and Guardians of the Galaxy (both) were all great.
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Cap and WW are VERY different characters.
Cap always had a hero’s heart, but he was stuck in a weakling’s body until the super soldier serum. Only after could he finally achieve what he always wanted. At least in the first movie, he was never out to bring peace, but to win war. The good guys were Good and the bad guys were Bad. Only in the second movie did he begin to realize that the world is far more complicated than that.
WW was born a hero, and she never doubts who she is. She knows who she is and what she must do. WW’s struggle is not to answer, “Am I worthy to save the world?†She knows she is. The problem she has to overcome is: “Is the world worth saving?â€
This was where I did like Wonder Woman, and what Gal was able to do, but the movie was to me, far too derivative of First Avenger.
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Agreed. Ares should have been excised from this story --- or at least given some nuance. I still don’t think the central premise of the plot’s conflict made a whit of sense. But I confess that any time Diana smiled or kicked ass, I didn’t really care.
Ares was developed more than he had any business being. He should have entirely been on the sidelines.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
You know what, at least here it made sense.
Why would a guy who IS A LIVING PLANET reduce himself to a stupid humanoid extension of himself in order to engage in a melee with another guy who chooses to transform himself into...Pac-Man?!
Ego could have clenched down (like pinching a loaf) and killed everything in his "gut," so to speak, before they had time to realize what he was up to and mounted their ships and gotten out of there. Some of the dumbest writing ever in a CBM. Got any tape!
I await your dissertation.
They still needed to blow up EGO. EGO turned himself human only as a part of his plan to create other EGOs.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
Why is your Go-To Defense for every DC deficiency: "Oh yeah? Well, Marvel ... !"
Because Marvel hate. I see it on Facebook groups all the time.
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GotGV2 was a big, dumb movie. It aspired to big dumbness and succeeded. Fun? Sure. But silly through and through. Remember: this is a universe in which Howard the Duck gets cameos.
Guardians is the kooky side of Marvel. I mean yes Iron Man jokes, Scarlet Witch does memes and we have Spider-Man be Spider-Man but Guardians has the weirder aspects of Marvel in it. Weird being Russian dog astronauts, sentient planets, talking humanoid ducks, etc. I honestly thought that Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 was better than the first and showed a lot in it but didn't do say Iron Man 2 disjustice of moving the Guardians along to where they need to be in Guardians vol. 3.
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Wonder Woman aspired to epic heroism, and up until the final fight it succeeded admirably. I'm not for a minute suggesting WW was a bad movie. It was a great movie. I can't wait to see it again. (I can't say the same about GotGV2.) But it was not a flawless movie, and its chief villain was one of the biggest flaws. WW deserved better than a super-powered Snidely Whiplash.
I think it wasn't Snidley Whiplash enough even though Ares isn't that. Ares should have been Thanos, not Red Skull.
I was merely wondering if the reason you take DC to task far more often than Marvel was because you care far more about their characters.
Not really. As a kid, I was a total Marvel snob, but I'm not a kid anymore. I want DC movies to be the best movies ever. I want Marvel movies to be the best movies ever. I don't have a team in this sport. I want both to win, which is why it makes me mad when they fumble the ball so often.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Seems the case for many people (even if they don't admit it). Marvel gets excused for "big dumbness" movie after movie.
Dumb movies are okay if you are setting out to make a dumb movie (GotG). Dumb movies are not okay if you are setting out to make a smart movie (The Dark Knight Rises, Batman vs Superman, Iron Man 3, Iron Fist).
They still needed to blow up EGO. EGO turned himself human only as a part of his plan to create other EGOs.
That's why I said gut. They were in the BOWELS of the planet — Ego himself. They were there because they needed to nuke his Duracell (for the movie, anyway). He could have sphincter-clenched them at any time. It was a hysterically bad climactic showdown between a guy who needed to look like Kurt Russell (or D.H. in that one scene) as often as possible, a bunch of spray-painted drones, and the Guardians. Because jokes.
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
Because Marvel hate.
#YEAHRIGHT
I read everything, dude: Marvel, DC, Warren, Pacific, Eclipse, First, Dark Horse, Last Gasp, etc. Hell, I even picked up a few Charlton and Gold Key comics if something looked interesting.
When I see characters altered (Star-Lord) or nerfed (Doctor Strange) to the point I find it unacceptable, I've no problem calling 'em out.
Dumb movies are okay if you are setting out to make a dumb movie (GotG). Dumb movies are not okay if you are setting out to make a smart movie (The Dark Knight Rises, Batman vs Superman, Iron Man 3, Iron Fist).
So you're saying Gunn set out to make GOTG2 a "dumb" movie? I've no problem rolling with that.
So you're saying Gunn set out to make GOTG2 a "dumb" movie? I've no problem rolling with that.
If by "dumb" you mean an thoroughly illogical fun popcorn flick that never takes itself seriously, then yes. Absolutely.
GotG is a story with a talking raccoon, a sentient houseplant, and an irreverent duckman. It's a live action cartoon. The only thing DC has attempted that is remotely in the same ballpark is the old Batman TV show with Adam West.
If by "dumb" you mean an thoroughly illogical fun popcorn flick that never takes itself seriously, then yes. Absolutely.
GotG is a story with a talking raccoon, a sentient houseplant, and an irreverent duckman. It's a live action cartoon. The only thing DC has attempted that is remotely in the same ballpark is the old Batman TV show with Adam West.
If by "dumb" you mean an thoroughly illogical fun popcorn flick that never takes itself seriously, then yes. Absolutely.
GotG is a story with a talking raccoon, a sentient houseplant, and an irreverent duckman. It's a live action cartoon.
I don't know what kind of dumb you meant, you just said dumb. I took it as an absolute.
I've no problem with the characters themselves. They existed long before they were collected for the 2008 comic and the 2014 movie. I enjoy the cornball, wacky stuff. I loved Captain Carrot & His Amazing Zoo Crew (basically the Justice League if they were analogues of Warner Bros. cartoon characters). I'd love to see an animated production of the original comic.
Again, I like the first GOTG. I do not like the sequel. At all.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
The only thing DC has attempted that is remotely in the same ballpark is the old Batman TV show with Adam West.
In film or TV, perhaps. In comics and animation, no.
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