Be honest please, how friendly are the people in Montreal? (appointed, credit)

[Mtlcitizen]

I think you will do just fine in Montreal. I am a native Montrealer of German immigrants (post WW2), grew up speaking English, but I am fully bilingual now (English & French, my German is not so good). I am about your age and can tell you that our generation in Montreal, English, French and immigrant alike is very open, very tolerant and very social, as are the younger generations. The first question out of most people will probably be about your origins (your accents in French & English will give you away). Montreal is an immigrant city, I think they make up the majority now, and there are definite "cultural communities", but in school and the workplace, most people inter-mingle and it's definitely what gives Montreal it's charm (and GREAT restaurants!).

I do not have children, but those I know who send their children to French school (your son will not be eligible for English school until his post-secondary years) usually send them to public primary school and private secondary school (high-school). But private schools in Quebec are mostly subsidized by the government and very affordable to the middle class. With French schooling and English be spoken at home he will be bilingual within the six months you assume. Just a warning, the Montreal French accent is not like the European one, it's not as pretty. Our English accent is also very unique. You may hear of the "language issue" which mostly little tempests in teapots, and not too much to worry about.

I don't know which part of Montreal you are planning to live in or set up your business in, but there are areas that are more tolerant to English speakers, even where you may do the majority of your business in English and not be able to use your French as much as you like! (i.e. West Island area, Westmount).

I hope your experience in Montreal is a pleasant one, we have a great city, of course everyone can have a bad experience and no city has a monopoly on, excuse the term, a--holes. But Montreal may have the monopoly on potholes ... I won't go into detail about the constant road repairs, you may change your mind about coming here

[kayjay12]

mtlcitizemn - what a great post - thanks so much ! Sorry the "a...hole" reference came from another poster, not from me. I generally don't like referring to people of any nationality in those crude terms. Every person is a human being first of all and has become what they have become because of their personal life experiences - good or bad.

DH and I are very lively, outgoing people and make friends quite easily if we are surrounded by mutually friendly people. I have a British accent, DH speaks French with a "foreign" Parisian-style accent and he speaks English fluently, but with a foreign accent.

I think in a cosmopolitan place like Montreal accents must be all over the place - which in my view is a good thing !

How boring to have everyone speaking exactly the same with the same sort of accent ! I have been teaching English for several years, so personally very very tolerant of any sort of accent/dialect.

I just hope Montreal will tolerate my initially poor French ???

My husband is going there for a short visit soon. Luckily he has a family friend there who emigrated there from our country of origin recently as well as a few friends who went to Monteal from France. I think the more people we meet and speak to about their experiences the better idea we will get.

[BIMBAM]

Please tell us how he finds it! Even if his impressions are negative, it's always genuinely interesting to get the opinions of foreigners on our land. I do hope, however, that he will find as much to love as we do.

[gummyworm]

Hello kayjay12, I'm happy to have caught your message. I've immigrated to Montreal near the end of my teen years and stayed there for over 16 years. Coming from a country with a hot weather and where people were generally friendlier and very easily approachable, I had the hardest time in Montreal for a long time. It took me a while to somewhat understand its social mechanisms. I will not give you the "it's nice and friendly" soundbite, because that's just not as simple as that. I'll try to address some of your points as well.

First, talking about french courses. Don't waste your money. They're expensive and usually focus a lot on the written and very little on the spoken. Having recently hosted a friend who wanted to learn french in Montreal, we've concluded that it's better to stay away from language schools. They're after your money. A more interesting alternative are to make contact with private tutors that offer their services on Kijiji and craigslist and focus more on the speech. Also, be sure to take courses from people that teach you an accent neutral french or something close (some french speaking immigrants are very good for this). Stay away from people encouraging you to learn "quebecois french". They'll take your money and will use the loose and informal nature of the quebecois dialect as an excuse for the incompetent french they'll teach you.

Now about the social feel of the town. A lot of people in this thread have mentioned that people are friendly in Montreal. That is absolutely true. However, I need to debunk certain presumptions that might stem from the overly romanticized portrayal many people like to make of the city.

Montreal is not a place where you can just easily walk up to strangers and strike up a conversation, you will be met with suspicious looks. It's not the type of town where you greet others when you walk in an elevator. If you do, people will be slightly surprised. Bars and cafes are not the place to make friends either, you'll only get really superficial connections, if any. Don't get me wrong, people in Montreal genuinely long for human contact, but culturally, they just don't know how to approach, or how to handle being approached by strangers very well. If you attempt the experiment the results may vary, but I'm almost certain that you'll be frustrated by the misunderstandings.

The trick in this city is to be active. It's much easier to get more meaningful contacts, by joining an activity. The city is full of them, whether it's sporting clubs, yoga, salsa, cooking, music, martial arts, rock climbing, team sports, whatever. There are all sorts of clubs and leagues you can join and attend regularly and that can form a good basis for your new circle. Most neighborhoods also have community centers, that offer seasonal activities. A good way to get to know people who live around you. If you join a solo activity like a gym or swimming pool, you will need to provoke the contact with others, because as I said, people aren't antisocial, they're just really shy in this city. Luckily it's not hard to approach people once the conditions are there, you just have to say "hi".

As people get used to see you regularly, it'll be easier to exchange names and have chit-chats. People in Montreal aren't particularly interested in other people's life story, as it would otherwise be the case in many warmer countries. So, don't expect them to manifest a particular interest in knowing you more than that in the beginning. You will have to be proactive about this as well. You can organize outtings or host parties, people are usually open to the idea. As you meet more and more people, you'll eventually find a few sister souls.

One thing to note about hosting or attending a gathering with french Quebeckers in particular: they're notoriously cliquey. It's not uncommon for people to just stay in their little corners with their friends during the entire event. Attempts at integrating those little groups can also be met with a certain resistance. My advice if you organize a "french" party and you want people to have a good time, select people by potential affinity and keep the total number low (between 5 and 15 people) to give a sense of intimacy. Also, I noticed that a table diner where people are forced to share the conversation with everybody else, rather than keeping it amongst themselves, generally yields a better outcome than, say, a bbq, which lets them roam around and eventually revert to the clique attitude.

So invite people, ask them to bring a friend or two, then force them to mingle by mixing up their seating arrangements yourself. They'll be shy at first, after 2 or 3 drinks, they'll all talk amongst each others.

If there's one thing you need to take away from all this: be active in the city and you'll enjoy it.

[kayjay12]

Gummy - thanks so much, what an open and honest post - one of the BEST I have read on this forum. You make logical and intelligent comments about Montreal.

I must say, I am very aware of people's manner and body language way before I start having a conversation with them. The problem here in the UK is that sadly native English people (by their own admission) do not show much open affection/frienldiness towards children. This is what I am finding the most difficult aspect of my life in the UK and obviously I ony noticed it when I had my son 7 years ago ! I often get stared at when I greet my son after school or in other public places with huge hugs and kisses.

When we go abroad (esp. places like southern Europe) total strangers instantly strike up a conversation with our son, even give him little gifts (I remember the lovely Italian waiter who went and got my son a toddler at the time a little yellow bus to play with and then let him keep it . I have rarely seen such friendliness/generosity towards childern here in the UK.

I will never forget one summer in a local park I was watching my son playing on the play equipment, I sat on the grass to enjoy a lovely sunny day out with my son. A saw a baby crawling towards me - eventually he came up and then put his hands on my knees, I have no idea why, perhaps it's because I have an easy smile and friendly face . The next thing I knew, his grandfather ran towards me, practically snatched the baby off my knee, gave me an annoyed/unfriendly look and walked off. In any civilzed society, someone would have found what the baby did cute (I did !!) - instead I faced the wrath of an annoyed grandfather looking at me like I was I some sort of pervert trying to touch his grandson This is not an isolated case either. It comes down to paranoia about kidnappers, etc. Sadly people don't realise that such odd behaviour in a park full of children will only worsen the UK's child-unfriendly status around the world.

I remember reading a very touching article written by a journalist in a British paper (he is English) saying he had just been to another country in Europe where total strangers had come up to say how gorgeous his little baby is, etc. and saying that only since having a baby had he realised how unfriendly his own kind, the English, can be around children. Of course, he got a whole load of abuse on his blog about being "ginger" and it must be because his baby must also be "ginger" that no one bothers picking her up in the UK ! Shocking comments.

It shows a shocking attitude towards children and youth - "burying ones head in the sand" - rather than trying to address a real social crisis in the UK. This crisis has been highlighted by international reports. In a United Nations survey from a few years ago, British children came BOTTOM of the list of the world's most developed countries on the "happiness" index. The children surveyed had given their honest opinion about the lack of good, open, communication with their parents and other adults (most commented that they did not even eat their meals with their families but up in their bedrooms on their own) and how there is persistent bullying by peers at school. Not a pretty picture.

[kayjay12]

gummy - I like the sensible advice you give on the French language. I would say that what you say also applies to English (I have been teaching English for a number of years !) and all other languages which you wish to learn within a community.

It is an utter waste of time and money to do months and months of grammar instead of getting out and about socialising with the locals and other immigrants who are in the same boat. This way you get to meet new friends AND learn the language - it's a win-win situation, totally agree ! My husband learned French in Paris, never bothered going to French classes, just learned it through friends and at work : )

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kayjay12

I just hope Montreal will tolerate my initially poor French ???

.

Given that there is someting of a local political issue with people who move to Montreal and refuse to speak even a single word of French, any efforts made at speaking it - even imperfectly - will be very warmly received.

[kayjay12]

Hi Acajack - totally understand what you mean. I personally think it's very rude to the natives of ANY country for immigrants not to bother learning the language. I think esp. when one has English, we seem to think we can just walk into a part of the world and expect people to speak English back. I admit English is a blessing, as it still is the world's main langauge of business, but it's the wrong attitude not to learn other languages.

Here in the UK primary school children are rarely exposed to any langauges at all in the state sector. Secondary school is far too late for learning a language well. The brain is far better at doing languages under the age of 7 (so says linguistics research). I wish English-speaking countries would do more to help very young primary school childern learn a 2nd/3rd language.

My husband started teaching my son some French when he was only 5. Before age 5 we had made sure he was at least bilingual in our native language and English. We can see the difference being raised bilingually - our son is 7 now but very keen to learn more French - he enjoys languages : )

[rejeane]

Reading your post made me cry. I am from Montreal and live in the North West of England and your post made me happy, because i realise that i was not the only one that had the same feeling. It has been 10 years and still they look at me like i am from Mars, i have been bullied and snub by Anglos and Asian...you cant win no matter what you do...
I do envy you going to Montreal, I wish i was going with you. But my husband his English so until he retires we are stuck here.

I can assure you that in Montreal the attitude his very different. And that people are extremely friendly in general. Yes you will get some idiots, but every country has some. And someone see that your triing to speack french they will usually switch to english. We dont get totally **** face every week end. And the festivals in the summer are excellent ( they are in french and english). We do invinte people to go for coffee or come over for supper with no expectations. We are very french in attitude but not stress out like in France...you will love it.
( apologies for my grammar)

[rejeane]

Gummyworm ''One thing to note about hosting or attending a gathering with french Quebeckers in particular: they're notoriously cliquey. It's not uncommon for people to just stay in their little corners with their friends during the entire event. Attempts at integrating those little groups can also be met with a certain resistance. My advice if you organize a "french" party and you want people to have a good time, select people by potential affinity and keep the total number low (between 5 and 15 people) to give a sense of intimacy. Also, I noticed that a table diner where people are forced to share the conversation with everybody else, rather than keeping it amongst themselves, generally yields a better outcome than, say, a bbq, which lets them roam around and eventually revert to the clique attitude.''



I am relly sorry that your think that we are clicky, we are not. You just meet the wrong people or they where scared of you....special if you spoke British English or was it during the 80-90 when the PQ came into power??? if it was then well that all together ball game....