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I know people in Minnesota who have had MANY DUI's, like upwards of 8 and they still legally can pay their way through and drive. In fact in one instance the officer sent the intoxicated individual on their merry way. Let's talk about Arizona judicial system- individual (whom I know well) gets in car and puts keys in ignition, realizes he is too intoxicated but doesn't take keys out and gets DUI, with the whole nine yards including a lot of money spent. That is just one little example of legal differences found.
That's not a difference at all. The exact same scenario can and does play out in Minnesota. Because the law applied strictly as written is that if your keys are in the ignition, and you are legally intoxicated, you are guilty of a DUI.
Whether the law is applied more or less frequently that way in Arizona than in Minnesota, well....I have no idea if that is true or not. If it is applied that way more frequently in Arizona, than my hypothesis would be that Arizona is more willing to waste time and taxpayer money prosecuting offenders who-- while *technically* in violation of the law-- did not pose any salient, practical threat at the time that they were investigated and arrested.
Again, I don't know that that's even the case, but it wouldn't surprise me because-- and other posters have already stated this quite eloquently-- Arizona, Louisiana, Mississippi, et al do not have a particularly good record on reducing crime or applying laws sensibly...
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We don't just need to talk about incarceration here. Why are people getting hit by the light rail every other day? They should be getting tickets for that instead of allowing the same mistake to repeatedly happen!
It's a bit tough (and pointless) to ticket the dead.
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If someone steals a car- they should be serving time and/or be on probation. By allowing people to walk away we are enabling.
And if they get convicted, they do serve time. Lots of it.
But the law states quite clearly that until and unless there is a resultant conviction, most offenders do not need to serve time in jail in the interim between arrest and conviction. Flee threats and violent offenders being the big exception.
These laws protect us-- all of us-- against false or undue imprisonment. And, as much as you may be a law-abiding citizen who thinks that these laws will never help you, the fact of the matter is that at some point in your life, laws that guard against false imprisonment may very well help you, and when/if they do, you'll be darn glad we have them.
For instance, would you want to sit in jail through the lengthy (1 year+) legal process of a first time, misdemeanor level DUI? Of course not...that would be inordinate to your crime, and that is assuming that you were guilty of the crime in the first place.
What you are proposing is that we either:
A.) keep all suspects incarcerated between the time of their arrest and the time of their conviction (if there even is one), OR...
B.) determine which suspects we should incarcerate pending trial arbitrarily, on a hunch or a gut feeling, or apropos. That's not the Rule of Law at all; that's Anarchy.
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A crime is a crime is a crime. I don't understand how we can possibly bring race into this. The end result is still the end result and that is what we are talking about here.
Bolded is not true at all. Crimes vary in severity, frequency of occurrence, rate of recidivism, etc.
DUI's, for instance, can range in severity from misdemeanors up to felonies, depending on the existence or non-existence of a previous DUI conviction and other aggravating factors.
4th Degree Misdemeanor DUI's (the "lowest" level conviction) have one of the highest recidivism rates-- approximately 50%-- of any crime, violent or non-violent.
Sex crimes against children are some of the most severe and some of the most severely and most diligently prosecuted in our criminal justice system. But, they also have one of the lowest documented rates of recidivism-- between 2-7%.
So, it varies. And so, the sentencing varies. If you really believed that "a crime is a crime is a crime," then you would talk more about how severe penalties are consistently and expeditiously levied out against crack cocaine ("Black Drug") offenders, but not against powder cocaine ("White Drug") offenders.
But you're not talking about that. Instead, you're talking about Jamar Clark's criminal record
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Let's talk about black and white educational levels. Let's talk about crime and education levels. Let's talk about SES and education. I mean we could go on about why or how or reasons but life is not like that. We are all capable of making responsible choices and ESPECIALLY in Minnesota. You have to make multiple bad choices here to be faced with no option but to sell drugs.
Those are all salient points, but you haven't suggested any ways that we can narrow the alarming education and income disparities between non-Hispanic whites, and everybody else. Would you like to?
Also, just as a brief aside, drug dealing is not some high-paying trip out of poverty. That's all Hollywood. The average drug dealer-- after you account for all of the middle-men and higher-ups-- usually makes close to minimum wage.
For one, a major aspect of crime is prevention before the fact, and this goes into basic concepts of governance and society. Minnesota is not a poor state - Louisiana and Mississippi are. Crime rates tend to correlate with poverty rates. Minnesota has one of the best educational systems in the United States - Louisiana and Mississippi rank among the worst. Educated populaces have more opportunities and fewer tendencies to turn to crime. Minnesota also has the most extensive social safety net in the country. Take a guess at where Louisiana and Mississippi rank. Now, a lot of people wring their hands over the expense of such things as education and social services, but they aren't seeing for forest for the trees. They focus entirely on the balance sheet in the near-term, ignoring the long-term costs.
Beyond that, I think it goes to basic notions of criminal justice. Most prisoners are going to re-enter society one day. Some states want to prepare those prisoners for that. They make treatment for substance abuse readily available. They support educational opportunities in prison to enhance the employment prospects for those prisoners once they're released. They 'ban the box' so as not to make it harder for ex-cons to be gainfully employed. They don't pursue permanent disenfranchisement for felons. These states focus on rehabilitation and work to lower recidivism rates.
Other states take the tack that imprisonment must be entirely punitive. Improvement programs are not supported. This notion tends to be ideologically driven by people who are less interested in results and more interested in retribution. And that sort of attitude gets just want one would expect - poor results. More recidivism. More crime. And what this comes down to in the end is whether we as a society want to see fewer of our people robbed, assaulted, raped, and mugged - or if we'll accept that as long as we get to feel good about being 'tough on crime'? Personally, I prefer living in a world where it's less likely that my children, my wife, myself, the people next door, will be victims of crime.
There's always room for improvement, even here in Minnesota. But let's not lose sight of the fact that on balance we're doing criminal justice a lot better than most states.
I know some teachers who would disagree with you scooter!
MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — The teacher who was attacked by a student earlier in December is planning on suing St. Paul Public Schools, saying the district has failed to keep teachers safe.
The law firm Villaume & Shiek, P.A. announced Monday that they have been retained by John Ekblad, a St. Paul teacher, to “commence civil litigation against the St. Paul Public Schools for negligence in failing to provide him with a workplace free of assaultive behavior and violence in general.”
On Friday, Dec. 4, a 16-year-old St. Paul student allegedly body slammed and choked Ekblad, his teacher at Center High School.
Fon’Tae O’Bannon is accused of slamming Ekblad into a cafeteria table and chair when Ekblad tried intervening in a fight. The student then choked him until he was unconscious. O’Bannon was charged with third-degree assault.
Ekblad suffered brain damage and a concussion in the incident and needed hospitalization.
“The School District has been on notice that there is a physical violence problem towards teachers in the School District by its students. However, the School District has failed to properly safeguard its teachers,” the law firm said. “The School District had knowledge of the harassment, violence, or assaultive behavior of its students, but did not take any appropriate disciplinary action against its students, nor did the School District take and remedial action to prevent assaultive or dangerous conduct.”
Ekblad will be making a statement at a press conference Tuesday at the law firm’s Bloomington office.
I know some teachers who would disagree with you scooter!
MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — The teacher who was attacked by a student earlier in December is planning on suing St. Paul Public Schools, saying the district has failed to keep teachers safe.
The law firm Villaume & Shiek, P.A. announced Monday that they have been retained by John Ekblad, a St. Paul teacher, to “commence civil litigation against the St. Paul Public Schools for negligence in failing to provide him with a workplace free of assaultive behavior and violence in general.”
On Friday, Dec. 4, a 16-year-old St. Paul student allegedly body slammed and choked Ekblad, his teacher at Center High School.
Fon’Tae O’Bannon is accused of slamming Ekblad into a cafeteria table and chair when Ekblad tried intervening in a fight. The student then choked him until he was unconscious. O’Bannon was charged with third-degree assault.
Ekblad suffered brain damage and a concussion in the incident and needed hospitalization.
“The School District has been on notice that there is a physical violence problem towards teachers in the School District by its students. However, the School District has failed to properly safeguard its teachers,” the law firm said. “The School District had knowledge of the harassment, violence, or assaultive behavior of its students, but did not take any appropriate disciplinary action against its students, nor did the School District take and remedial action to prevent assaultive or dangerous conduct.”
Ekblad will be making a statement at a press conference Tuesday at the law firm’s Bloomington office.
Apparently, these teachers don't teach statistics, mathematics, or even basic logic.
The fact that you - and these teachers, if they exist - think that one (or two, or a dozen, or a hundred) examples of violence demonstrate that Minnesota does not have a lower violent crime rate than most states is, frankly, sad. Minnesota's violent crime rate is a function of its entire population and every recorded violent crime that takes place here. How do you think that one (or two, or a dozen, or a hundred) examples of violence speak to that rate in any way? You do know that even the most peaceable state in the country still has numerous murders, rapes, and assaults each year... right? Well, judging from your post, maybe you don't comprehend this.
So let me repeat myself. I'll type r-e-a-l s-l-o-w-l-y.
*Minnesota has the second-lowest incarceration rate in the United States.
*Crime in Minnesota is at a half-century low.
*Minnesota's violent crime rate (rate - do you understand what that means?) is lower than 41 of the other 50 states.
The cites for all of these facts are in my first post in this thread (I tried re-posting the links by the formatting isn't working - but they're still there, see post #2, 12-11-2015).
If you think the fact that a teacher was assaulted in Minnesota contradicts these facts, then you might want to go back to school yourself.
Ask a MN police officer how the college towns keep their assault rates low while still dealing with them. They charge them out as disorderly conduct. Even some sexual assaults. Voila! Send your kid to school here - we have a low assault rate.
As far as schools and assaults by students, in the small city where I live the school will refer the parent to the police who will refer the parent back to the school. That's their method for dealing with violent students. So you have to have broken bones or near death experiences before you can get anything on the books at all.
Cases of domestic assault frequently involve prosecuting the assaulter and the defender. When help is called for and they are told they will both be charged most of the time they refuse further intervention. Therefore - no assault.
You will never see any detailed record of school assaults anywhere here if you are the average citizen. All is well.
So there's that. Whether the amount of dishonesty that takes place in the system is sufficient to put us at a level comparable to say, Louisiana, is doubtful. But we certainly aren't as free from violence as is presented.
Apparently, these teachers don't teach statistics, mathematics, or even basic logic.
The fact that you - and these teachers, if they exist - think that one (or two, or a dozen, or a hundred) examples of violence demonstrate that Minnesota does not have a lower violent crime rate than most states is, frankly, sad. Minnesota's violent crime rate is a function of its entire population and every recorded violent crime that takes place here. How do you think that one (or two, or a dozen, or a hundred) examples of violence speak to that rate in any way? You do know that even the most peaceable state in the country still has numerous murders, rapes, and assaults each year... right? Well, judging from your post, maybe you don't comprehend this.
So let me repeat myself. I'll type r-e-a-l s-l-o-w-l-y.
*Minnesota has the second-lowest incarceration rate in the United States.
*Crime in Minnesota is at a half-century low.
*Minnesota's violent crime rate (rate - do you understand what that means?) is lower than 41 of the other 50 states.
The cites for all of these facts are in my first post in this thread (I tried re-posting the links by the formatting isn't working - but they're still there, see post #2, 12-11-2015).
If you think the fact that a teacher was assaulted in Minnesota contradicts these facts, then you might want to go back to school yourself.
Counterpoints to consider:
I imagine crime is at a half-century low in almost every state. Minnesota is not special in that regard.
I also imagine demographics play a huge part in Minnesota ranking as low in violent crime as it does. It might be doing slightly better than it "should be" thanks to strong educational and social service systems, but it would be almost impossible for MN to rank, say, sixth in the nation in violent crime rate. It's literally not in the DNA of the state's residents.
I imagine crime is at a half-century low in almost every state. Minnesota is not special in that regard.
I also imagine demographics play a huge part in Minnesota ranking as low in violent crime as it does. It might be doing slightly better than it "should be" thanks to strong educational and social service systems, but it would be almost impossible for MN to rank, say, sixth in the nation in violent crime rate. It's literally not in the DNA of the state's residents.
If you had read Unsettomati's previous posts, you would see that is not a claim made.
According to the Saint Paul Pioneer-Press, Gallagher thought that the bugs would lead to her losing her lease – and the thought of moving all her possessions out allegedly tipped him into a murderous fury.
from the Strib...
According to the charges, he beat her on the head with a sculpture of himself. He also tried to smother her with a pillow, strangle her with his hands and suffocate her with a garbage bag, the complaint said.
The whole thing sort of leaves you speechless, doesn't it, Ghengis?
This being the Holidays I'll restrain myself from a number of irreverent remarks that come to mind. It's difficult not to notice that residents of the building were quite offended by the implication that they lived in a building with bed bugs, though.
Minnesota has one of the lowest incarceration rates in the country, but due to economic disparities, Minnesota also has one of the worst black-white incarceration ratios in the country. (Recent article in The Atlantic: The Black Family in the Age of Mass Incarceration).
Economic disparities?
Right.
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