A thread for those frustrated in Michigan (Westland, Taylor: real estate, apartments)
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I am just yet another who is leaving Michigan! Came here 10 years ago from Minnesota and totally regret it now. It's time for me to get out of the Midwest and move to another area where they think differently! Michigan put all their eggs into one basket (the Big 3) and even 1'st year under grad students getting a financial advisor degree know you shouldn't do that! So wham, we as Americans want more and more and work less and less so guess what, Toyota, Hyundai etc all surpassed our Big 3 and they are gone. Did the workers want to take concessions, nope! They would rather lose their jobs! Brilliant! So we bail them out and then they file bankruptcy! I'm done with Michigan for good!
I can't believe some people are defending Michigan here! It was just on the State Website! December 2008 unemployment was 7.6%. December 2009 was 15.9%. Masters degree deosn;t mean squat! Wife has a Masters in Special Education and will be losing her job! Some of the local school districts are cutting bus services totally! This state is totally falling apart! Time to leave! I lost my job 4 days before Christmas! I have been in the building industry my entire life except for my military time and have made good money! Going back to school and becoming a Surgical Tech. Even if I could get a job after that in Michigan I'm still leaving!
They did make concessions. Retirees don't have dental or vision coverage. Starting wages for a big 3 employee are less than the foreign companies. Employees at the Gerogetown Kentucky Toyota plant actually make more than a big 3 employee. The UAW has taken over retiree health care (For Ford right now)
The oldest foreign plant in the US opened in the 80's. The big 3 has been around for a hundred years. The foreign companies simply have no employees at retirement yet. Not to mention the fact the big 3 employees have paid into their retirement and it is fully vested by the company. Not the employees fault GM squandered 25% of it's employee retirement fund. Not the employees fault GM's US market share dropped from 50% to 25%. Poor management led to GM and the other company's demise, not the employees.
See quote about there being a glut of PhD's. Majoring in Math might get you a job as an actuary or school teacher. A simple BS in Physics isn't worth much -- you really need to get to the PhD level.
STEM workers are being replaced by H1B/L1 visa people. The jobs that the everybody think are in high demand are having that demand filled by foreign nationals. That creates an artificially high supply and pushes down wages. It also makes it difficult to break into the field as a new graduate.
You're right that the choice of a degree matters but don't get too cocky. There may not be jobs with the "right" degree either unless you're top in your class and/or are at an ivy-league school. And then there's the possibility of huge amounts of student debt you'll be paying off if you can get a job. There's only so many white-collar jobs out there and the push to make everybody college-educated has simply made competition higher and wages lower.
I just don't know what the "safe" jobs are going to be in the future. I sometimes think that trade-schools are the better bet. Less debt, skills that can be used anywhere, time and a half for overtime, no self-funded continuing education outside of your job, and no office politics. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal recently which debunked the myth that college-educated people made $1M more on average during their lifetime than their counterparts. I think they were saying it was more like 250K -- it's still substantial but not as much when you consider it over 50 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mccragre
I see a lot of people here support the argument that education is no guarantee to getting a job straight out of college. However, as a current college student I'm not worried about this. It's because I'm not getting a useless degree. I'm majoring in physics and math, and will have plenty of job opportunities open to me even with just a BS. There are lots of engineering and science jobs out there, especially in the Navy and Air Force. There's also always a need for math and science high school teachers. Plus if you go on to get your PhD or Masters in something useful (like engineering, chemistry, physics, etc.) there are still a good number of opportunities in industry or academia.
I realize that this applies to few people here, as most are older and probably don't want/ can't go back to college. But I'm sure a lot of you have kids. The problem I'm seeing is all the students who have useless fields of study. A vast number of students here major in psychology, sociology, anthropology, communications, etc. There are almost no jobs in any of these fields, especially to someone with a BA. I suspect there never will be. There are also way too many kids trying to get into med school.
Simply put, make your kids pick a field of study that they not only like, but that actually has good job opportunities when they are done. You guys think it is bad now, just wait 5-10 years from now when all these students emerge from college and find that their $50,000 (which is disgustingly on the cheaper end) education qualifies them for nothing.
I can't believe some people are defending Michigan here! It was just on the State Website! December 2008 unemployment was 7.6%. December 2009 was 15.9%. Masters degree deosn;t mean squat! Wife has a Masters in Special Education and will be losing her job! Some of the local school districts are cutting bus services totally! This state is totally falling apart! Time to leave! I lost my job 4 days before Christmas! I have been in the building industry my entire life except for my military time and have made good money! Going back to school and becoming a Surgical Tech. Even if I could get a job after that in Michigan I'm still leaving!
We DEFEND the Great state of MICHIGAN here because it is our home where our friends and family are... and we LOVE our state!
I just hope where ever you move to you don't take your negativity with you. What if you move and can't find a job in your new state? You going to blame that state and say how horrible it is?
I wish you the best of luck with your move and your venture towards a new career. But just because you move doesn't mean it's going to be the golden ticket to you finding a job right away and being happy...
It's NOT ONLY Michigan that is struggling right now, a lot of cities/states are struggling.
Once again, I stand up and say.... I AM PROUD TO BE FROM MICHIGAN!!
I agree with you. I don't know anybody who lost their job either.
I like Michigan. I just wish we would get some real snow. WTF! We are a northern state. It is February already and all we've had is some dustings and one 3" snowfall about 2 or 3 weeks ago that lasted a couple of days.
It's getting depressing.
There are parts of Tn and NC that have gotten more snow than say southeast Mi. Im about half way up the mitten and weve only had one or two snowfalls over 6 inches. My relatives further downstate claim to have gotten almost none. Yea I agree, where is our snow??? I was in Gaylord last week in the heart of the lake effect snowbelt and even there the snowpack is not what it should be. Too bad we are not getting that blizzard they are getting out east. That would catch us up.
See quote about there being a glut of PhD's. Majoring in Math might get you a job as an actuary or school teacher. A simple BS in Physics isn't worth much -- you really need to get to the PhD level.
STEM workers are being replaced by H1B/L1 visa people. The jobs that the everybody think are in high demand are having that demand filled by foreign nationals. That creates an artificially high supply and pushes down wages. It also makes it difficult to break into the field as a new graduate.
You're right that the choice of a degree matters but don't get too cocky. There may not be jobs with the "right" degree either unless you're top in your class and/or are at an ivy-league school. And then there's the possibility of huge amounts of student debt you'll be paying off if you can get a job. There's only so many white-collar jobs out there and the push to make everybody college-educated has simply made competition higher and wages lower.
I just don't know what the "safe" jobs are going to be in the future. I sometimes think that trade-schools are the better bet. Less debt, skills that can be used anywhere, time and a half for overtime, no self-funded continuing education outside of your job, and no office politics. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal recently which debunked the myth that college-educated people made $1M more on average during their lifetime than their counterparts. I think they were saying it was more like 250K -- it's still substantial but not as much when you consider it over 50 years.
Yeah what you say is true. Good thing I don't care too much about money. Although I imagine my views on this will probably change some in a year or so when college is done.
I think where most people going to college go wrong is that they expect to make significantly more money than the average person. What people should be concerned with is working towards jobs in stable fields. Yes there aren't any perfectly stable fields anymore, but some are a lot better than others.
This is why I might just go work for the Air Force if I get offered a commission to do engineering related work, or become a school teacher. I won't get paid much, but there's a lot more potential that way to leading a sustainable and happy life.
The Air Force is a great move. If it doesn't work out, you should still have a top secret security clearance which will allow you to work for the government under defense contractors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mccragre
Yeah what you say is true. Good thing I don't care too much about money. Although I imagine my views on this will probably change some in a year or so when college is done.
I think where most people going to college go wrong is that they expect to make significantly more money than the average person. What people should be concerned with is working towards jobs in stable fields. Yes there aren't any perfectly stable fields anymore, but some are a lot better than others.
This is why I might just go work for the Air Force if I get offered a commission to do engineering related work, or become a school teacher. I won't get paid much, but there's a lot more potential that way to leading a sustainable and happy life.
I see a lot of people here support the argument that education is no guarantee to getting a job straight out of college. However, as a current college student I'm not worried about this. It's because I'm not getting a useless degree. I'm majoring in physics and math, and will have plenty of job opportunities open to me even with just a BS. There are lots of engineering and science jobs out there, especially in the Navy and Air Force. There's also always a need for math and science high school teachers. Plus if you go on to get your PhD or Masters in something useful (like engineering, chemistry, physics, etc.) there are still a good number of opportunities in industry or academia.
I realize that this applies to few people here, as most are older and probably don't want/ can't go back to college. But I'm sure a lot of you have kids. The problem I'm seeing is all the students who have useless fields of study. A vast number of students here major in psychology, sociology, anthropology, communications, etc. There are almost no jobs in any of these fields, especially to someone with a BA. I suspect there never will be. There are also way too many kids trying to get into med school.
Simply put, make your kids pick a field of study that they not only like, but that actually has good job opportunities when they are done. You guys think it is bad now, just wait 5-10 years from now when all these students emerge from college and find that their $50,000 (which is disgustingly on the cheaper end) education qualifies them for nothing.
There is glut of people with engineering degrees, Ph.D.s are so plentiful - many are temping 25-30k jobs (technicians with H.S. diploma used to do) well into their 30s or even 40s before being discarded. Rumors about abundance of math&Sci teaching jobs are greatly exaggerated. Besides, even a Nobel Prize winner in Physics would have to go back to school (2 years minimum) to get his H.S. teaching certification. Rare engineer is employable past 40 y.0. Rare engineer would climb high on a corporate ladder. People with "useless" degrees you listed climb much, much higher on the corporate ladder. Be nice to the liberal art types, they will be your bosses.
Last edited by RememberMee; 02-06-2010 at 12:23 AM..
I think where most people going to college go wrong is that they expect to make significantly more money than the average person.
Also, you shall not expect your average college educated jobs to be much less brain numbing and/or spirit killing than burger flipping. Sometimes, prostituting your hands for living is little bit better than prostituting your mind. Majority of employers demand college education as some kind of pre screening certificate in trainability, boredom tolerance and obedience training. They couldn't care less about specifics of education (as long as you are not over educated, it's big NO in the corporate world).
Quote:
What people should be concerned with is working towards jobs in stable fields. Yes there aren't any perfectly stable fields anymore, but some are a lot better than others.
As soon as people are getting concerned with stable fields those fields immediately become unstable That's why AMA (American Medical Association) makes sure that "production" of medical professionals always lags demand. It's the only way to stability.
Quote:
This is why I might just go work for the Air Force if I get offered a commission to do engineering related work, or become a school teacher.
You see, Uncle Sam is spending more than the rest of the world combined on the Imperial Army, but sad example of USSR suggests that no country can sustain insane military spending for too long. Public Schooling is also tax funded.
Quote:
I won't get paid much, but there's a lot more potential that way to leading a sustainable and happy life.
assuming that Uncle Sam will collect enough of taxes to fund your sustainable and happy life, which is doubtful at this point.
RememberMee, are you suggesting then that I just drop out of school and go flip burgers??
I know you're trying to just be realistic about the world, and a lot of the stuff you are saying certainly has merit. But the world as we know it isn't going to end completely. Teachers will still get paid, and certainly the military isn't going to be abolished (although I agree, less spending would be wise). I know that all of the careers available to me aren't going to be dream jobs, but I'm sure I'll be able to find something that makes me happy. Besides, life isn't about your job. I think that's where this country goes wrong time and time again. People think to lead a successful life you need two new cars parked outside of your $300,000 house. I can find happiness with a lot less than that.
Yeah, I might be "young and CLUELESS" as you had posted earlier (since edited), but at least I am optimistic and content with simplicity. I think that's the biggest failure of some members of the older generations (not true for all), is that they have stopped being optimistic about life. I think you definitely reflect that in your posts.
I think you'll find Tennessee isn't all it's cracked up to be.
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That's why AMA (American Medical Association) makes sure that "production" of medical professionals always lags demand. It's the only way to stability.
