[lpranger467]

Has anyone here made this move ? what were the big plus/minuses. Thanks !

[DTWflyer]

Below, is my common answer of considerations when looking at the greater Traverse City area for a move

If you are considering a move from Philly, while there is nothing specifically unique about that aspect, there are some additional considerations.
- Moving from the East Coast coastal cities and everything that it has to offer to a smaller regional city that while has many of the creature comforts of big city.
- If you are importing your wealth, or your job (remote work) with big-city income then you will do well. If you are seeking employment in the region, you will find the local market does not pay well for the cost of living that is disproporately high for the region. Partially due to all the imported wealth from retirees, remote workers, and generational vacation /second home market.
- Housing market is insanely tough and competitive. New construction is crazy expensive and backlogged several seasons
- Labor shortages have strained the service-based economy this summer. Lots of stores and restaurants, and contractors have been short staffed this year and have reduced hours / throughput. This was brewing pre-COVID but doesn't look to correct itself for awhile.
- TVC airport, there was seasonal flights offered this past summer on AA to PHL. Air service has gotten a lot better in recent years, and there is much more in the summer months than in the winter.
- If you have family on the east coast, it is a bit of a drive......12+ hours to the East Coast.

That said, beautiful region, lots to offer. Need to look at it through the lense of actually living/working there, and not just playing or vacationing there.

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This tends to be a fairly regular question on this forum.

Traverse City is the largest city in Northern Lower Peninsula. Its the regional hub for all things including commerce, retail, medical, airport, arts/festivals. Its grown a lot over the past 20-30 years. Its got its own local economy but its dispropropriately influenced as a huge draw for tourism, leisure, vacation property owners, retirees, and seasonal residents.
Its increasily seen an influx of entrepreuners, small business owners, and the arts in the past decade.
However a lot of wealth is "imported" into the region, not organically made.

Its a beautiful region with tons of recreational opportunities year-round, heavily involving the water and woods.

Weather, its for the hardy. Summers are short, awesome, and incredible, but short. Fall is great, but short. Winter in most years starts to set-in with consistent snowfall / snowpack most years from late-Nov through end of March, sometimes mid-April. Springs are typically cool and wet, and consistency comfortable temps don't arrive until mid/late May.

Relatively high cost of living area in comparison to the average wages most employers pay. "half the pay for a view of the bay". Hard to say employment prospects as that is highly variable based on your industry/profession. Jobs heavily skew toward service industry/hospitality/tourism or the usual amount of medical/professional/municipal services. Not a lot of industrial/manufacturing jobs in the region or "corporate"/white collar type jobs. (unless you are 100% virtual / remote from elsewhere)

Some of the things to consider about the greater Traverse City region:
- Part of Michigan's "Gold coast" along Lake Michigan and adjacent island lakes
- Areas were originally settled for their vast natural resources and have been a vacation spot of those from Detroit area, Chicago area, and broader parts of the Midwest for over a century
- Endless amounts of natural beauty due to the water and woods
- Long, cold, snow winters (in most years) heavily influenced by lake-effect snow off of Lake Michigan
- Short "12-week" summers of warm and sunny weather, followed by a short but beautiful fall
- Full of some of the best ski and golf resorts in the Midwest
- "half the pay for a view of the bay" - as most professions pay a fraction of downstate for an area that has a proportionally high cost of living
- Rampant, generational poverty when you get away from the well-monied lakefront resorter homes and communities
- Economy that is heavily reliant upon the tourism / hospitality / service industry directly or indirectly from travel and vacation homeowners/renters
- Lack of affordable housing
- Underlying drug / addiction issues and other domestic issues in the local community that are all masked behind the in-your-face wealth and beauty of the region
- Lots of retirees and/or seasonal residents in the lakefront / waterfront homes
- Year round residents are hardy, salt-of-the-earth folks that love the outdoors and all northern Michigan has to offer

[lpranger467]

Thank you very much for the detailed response. We actually lived in Detroit (region) for mot of my life and moved 7 years ago to Philly for my wifes job (airline job actually so your user name has me curious).

In general I havent found Philly to be quite as "midwest" in its value and overall manners. And the cost of living is terrible.

I'm drawing a pension and would walk away from out house here in Philly with just under 300g so I'd love to try to get a lakefront-access but not sure if my 400-500 range would get me very far.

I'd work a part time job of some sort, I was a municipal employee before but I'm not stuck on one career path. My wife on the otherhand would need to commute to ORD which would be a little bit of a task as that its mainly regional aircraft flying out of TVC.

Once again thanks so much for all of the info.

[DTWflyer]

Ah got it. Never worked in the industry, but fly a lot for both work and leisure (as well as manage a bunch of stuff we send via cargo).

I actually lived in Chester County for a couple of years in the mid-2000s. I agree with your sentiment, it has a very different vibe than the Midwest. I can't even begin to know what real estate / cost of living there is now. That area was blowing-up with new housing stock then. I liked Chester County and some of the old main line cities with all the architecture and well maintained older homes. I did not care for the city-proper of Philly at all.

Anyways....
You know the deal then having lived in Michigan for most of your life. The vibe, the culture, the good, the bad, the ugly.

The fact you have a pension and income helps. There is no shortage of part-time jobs in the region. You will have your pick of whatever you want to do thats of interest. Could piece together a couple of seasonal part-time jobs. Everyone is looking for people, the catch is good paying full time jobs/careers with benefits are hard to come by unless you are in medical or professional services.

For commuting to ORD, there are actually several flights a day on AA & UA (on regional jets).
They add a lot more flights in the summer than in the winter. I have no idea what the loads are like for commuting, but I would think it is probably ok, except on peak summer weekends. Unless, there are ton of other pilots/FA commuters all trying for the same limited open seats.

$400-500k for anything waterfront is going to be super-tough in the current environment. Open/Buildable lots on Lake Michigan, Torch, Elk are going for that price right now. Its nuts. You could maybe get a place on one of the smaller, less popular, lakes in the region. The problem is demand is through the roof, limited supply and you are in competition for everyone trying to buy a cabin/vacation home, and of course the rental VRBO/Airbnb crowd trying to get into the STR game. There has been a lot of pandemic buying up north and I know people who have been looking and stuff goes pending in a day with 20 offers. Good luck. Things may settle down a bit in the winter months, but I suspect the real estate market is going to be insane in the region for the foreseeable future.

[lpranger467]

I've been looking at Zillow, looks like maybe the Spider Lake area would be close to our range ?? but my wife wanted a bigger lot (which I told her was unrealistic). When we lived in Michigan we would vacation in TVC area, but I wasnt familiar at all with the real estate prices and such. Wife had idea of buying a larger lot on a smaller lake and doing some rental cabins on it, I dont think thats feasible even if we went all the way to 700G. I think we're gonna need to rent while we figure out the area/market

[DTWflyer]

Yeah, Spider Lakes area came to mind as a possible area to look. We rented a cabin out there a a few years ago, was a cool place just to relax on a small lake in the woods. Lots of hiking and mountain biking nearby in the State Forest land. Close to town too.

I'd look at the following areas, potentially for something "more affordable"
- Spider Lakes
- Interlochen / Grawn area
- Upper Chain of Lakes (Ellsworth, Central Lake, Bellaire area); may be a bit farther than you would like from TVC though.

Large lots on any lake in the region are going to be hard to come by. And they will have a price tag to go with it.
Realistically, to do something like you are thinking you would have to east of US-131, if not the eastern side of the Lower Peninsula.

Anything surrounding TC has gotten crazy expensive the past decade and then the pandemic buying threw gasoline on the fire. My wife's family has a cabin, and they've gotten multiple unsolicited offers, either from neighbors asking or even got a random letter, from people to buy the place, and its not even for sale, nor are we considering it.

[lpranger467]

Funny you mention mountain biking, thats my main hobby I guess you'd call it so much of my searching has surrounded this and being close to the trails. I liked that Bellaire was close to the trails and had a small pub in town (I love the balance of biking then chatting over beers).

As we sit here tonight, we've settled on $600,000 on minimum of 3/4 acre and possibly go to 700 based on sale price of house.

I really did love a lot of the places I saw (online) near Grawn, its just I dont see us getting any kind of land there (ok with me, not with Mrs LP)

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

Yeah, Spider Lakes area came to mind as a possible area to look. We rented a cabin out there a a few years ago, was a cool place just to relax on a small lake in the woods. Lots of hiking and mountain biking nearby in the State Forest land. Close to town too.

I'd look at the following areas, potentially for something "more affordable"
- Spider Lakes
- Interlochen / Grawn area
- Upper Chain of Lakes (Ellsworth, Central Lake, Bellaire area); may be a bit farther than you would like from TVC though.

Large lots on any lake in the region are going to be hard to come by. And they will have a price tag to go with it.
Realistically, to do something like you are thinking you would have to east of US-131, if not the eastern side of the Lower Peninsula.

Anything surrounding TC has gotten crazy expensive the past decade and then the pandemic buying threw gasoline on the fire. My wife's family has a cabin, and they've gotten multiple unsolicited offers, either from neighbors asking or even got a random letter, from people to buy the place, and its not even for sale, nor are we considering it.

[lpranger467]

Just a quick update, we made the move and ended up on Torch lake where were building. although the lake and area are beautiful, I will say the more rural pace is going to take time to get used too. I do wonder if GR would have been less of a cultural jump for me. Maybe its just my frustration at building that has me feeling this way,,I will (re) update once were done building.

[mjlo]

Originally Posted by lpranger467

Just a quick update, we made the move and ended up on Torch lake where were building. although the lake and area are beautiful, I will say the more rural pace is going to take time to get used too. I do wonder if GR would have been less of a cultural jump for me. Maybe its just my frustration at building that has me feeling this way,,I will (re) update once were done building.

Keep us posted. My folks have a house up in that area, feel free to reach out if you have any questions.

[lpranger467]

Thanks so much, were just south of Eastport, great area of the lake the peacefulness is just taking some getting used too.

Originally Posted by mjlo

Keep us posted. My folks have a house up in that area, feel free to reach out if you have any questions.