[southernlady5464]

Please lay down the Detroit Free Press, go to google, type in "20 worst housing markets 2006" and see what comes up. Hmmm, I don't see any of the Michigan metro areas among the top 20.

Didn't see the source *I* quoted...or did you bother looking for it? Hot or not? Housing markets across America http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8475859

Ohio and Michigan dominate the list of places where housing prices are broadly falling, according to third-quarter federal data.
Rank Metro area One-year change Five-year change
256. Monroe, Mich. 0.1% 18.9%
257. Cleveland 0% 15.5%
258. Grand Rapids, Mich. -0.2% 17.3%
259. Cambridge, Mass. -0.3% 39%
260. Jackson, Mich. -0.5% 19.4%
261. Lima, Ohio -0.5% 16.9%
262. Akron, Ohio -0.7% 13.5%
263. Toledo, Ohio -0.7% 15.6%
264. Saginaw, Mich. -0.8% 13.6%
265. Lansing, Mich. -0.8% 20.8%
266. Flint, Mich. -0.9% 16%
267. Muskegon, Mich. -1.1% 14.8%
268. Warren, Mich. -1.5% 13.7%
269. Detroit -2% 11.8%
270. Kokomo, Ind. -2% 8.7%
271. Greeley, Colo. -2% 13.4%
272. Holland, Mich. -2% 14.8%
273. Springfield, Ohio -2% 12.7%
274. Ann Arbor, Mich. -3% 16.4%
275. Anderson, Ind. -6.1% 5.2%


Source: U.S. Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight. Updated Nov. 30, 2006 with third-quarter data.

Couple that with what my realtor said about this area being terrible...I tend to believe it.

Yes, other areas are being affected but the "Rust belt" is getting hit the hardest. Liz

[BetseeT]

I have lived in Michigan my whole life and I don't think I'd move to actually live anywhere else. As others have said though, if you have a job that pays enough, you're happier. Very true. Both my husband and I work, raise our kids and are close to our extended families.

I think it's true that most people think Detroit when they think Michigan. Michigan is sooooo much more than Detroit. West Michigan is a great place to live. I live between Kalamazoo and Battle Creek, about a half hour from Indiana. Not in a snow belt which is the Lake Michigan area. No, not much snow this year; unseasonably warm actually. And very gray, which gets way old. But that's why they make vacations

Back to the weather ... very very very few tornadoes, one in downtown K-zoo about 25 to 30 years ago. No tsunamis. No hurricanes. No forest fires. One earthquake that was centered in Indiana I think back in the '80s. Haven't had a severe snowstorn since the late '70s. Very little flooding. Summers aren't too hot, winters aren't South Dakota cold.

The U.P.? Rocks out loud. Lake Superior is simply beautiful. Tahquammanon Falls? You can swim in them in the summertime.

Because our economy isn't great right now is that if you're an entrepreneur or if you're looking to expand your business, Michigan has people looking for work and the local, city and state governments will give tax incentives to either keep you here or get you here.

So that's my .02. Oh yeah, and the Kalamazoo Promise. That's a pretty good incentive too.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by southernlady5464

Didn't see the source *I* quoted...or did you bother looking for it? Hot or not? Housing markets across America http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8475859



Couple that with what my realtor said about this area being terrible...I tend to believe it.

Yes, other areas are being affected but the "Rust belt" is getting hit the hardest. Liz

Well, if a realtor said it, then it must be true. Realtors will tell you the market is bad because it gives them a scapegoat as to why they can't sell your home. Most of them got so used to a soaring market that they forgot how to sell.

Yes, that was so nice of MSNBC to highlight that section of the chart. What part of the chart are they not showing you? How about the many markets that were worse than -3% perhaps? Plus, the five year change they show is pretty reasonable, considering the Michigan economy has been struggling for about 4 years. Again, the rust belt was not the hardest hit in 2006. Looking at their chart, the numbers probably average about -1%, with Ann Arbor (an anomoly on their chart) the worst at -3%. Compare that to many markets in California -5%, Miami -7%, Phoenix double digit declines, etc.. But the media loves to beat up the Rust Belt.

I'm not saying that it's all wine and roses, but it's also not the armageddon people are making it out to be. Plus, all this negativity does only one thing if you live here: you're shooting yourself in the foot.

This is an interesting site that shows how markets are expected to perform in 2007:

http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/for...lestate/2.html

I don't know why they don't allow links here, but oh well.

Great point about being a "disaster-free" area BetseeTee. Check out this map by NOAA with "billion dollar weather disasters"



Yikes, North Carolina in purple (worst)! I guess we really are a blue state after all. I wonder how that will play out over the next decade with skyrocketing insurance costs (paid by us taxpayers) for these people who continue to live in these coastal states.

Peace Liz and I do hope your home sells if it's the right thing for you to do. Just don't s**t on the rest of us on your way out.

[dreamofmonterey]

Originally Posted by bonni0827

My husband and I love Arizona. Every state has its problems and no matter where you go there is going to be something that you do not like. Michigan is pretty in the spring and summer. The fall is pretty, but after the leaves
fall its not so pretty.
Winter here is horrible. I hate the cold and the lack of sunshine here drives me into a depressions. How can anyone like 22 degrees?
We spent 5 days down in Florida for the Christmas Week and it was wonderful. Every day was sunny/partly sunny. There is nothing like getting up in the morning and sitting on the patio and watching the sunrise and its 75 degrees. I had much more energy. I will be in Phonix next month and I cannot wait. Also, in Michigan, the city of Detroit is wretched. I have traveled all over Europe where major cities were in complete ruin and they rebuilt them. Unlike downtown Detroit, people live and work there and feel safe to walk the streets all hours of the night. If I was young again, I would definitely leave.

You are generalizing. 5 days in Florida is NOT telling anyone what life is like down there. Visit in April-August when it is 100 degrees. Also- there are many beautiful cities in Europe. They have been rebuilt since 1960.

[SteelCityRising]

Well, for some people, the grass is always greener somewhere else. I'm sure there's people living in such sought-after communities as Naperville, IL, Boulder, CO, and Charlottesville, VA that do nothing but moan and groan about their individual miseries that were somehow attributed to the metro areas as a whole. Currently, I'm living in Scranton, and while it's certainly not a "great" place to live, the rebounding optimism and downtown economic stimulation that I've seen occurring in the city since Mayor Doherty took office has been enough to convince me to remain in the region for graduate school and potentially stay in the city to help it along on its revitalization process by rehabilitating an older home in which to raise my family and to open up my own CPA practice in a downtown office building.

Overall, the entire "Rust-Belt" region, extending from Upstate NY, through PA, OH, IN, and MI, (and arguably IL and WI) has always had to contend with an overwhelmingly bitter, pessimistic population. Thankfully, some communities have been seeing major reinvestment lately due largely to residents themselves starting to take pride in their communities again. I've been noticing rebounding optimism for the future in places such as the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, PA), Scranton, PA, the Capital District (Albany, NY), and Rochester, NY. Also, after poring over many of the MI threads, it appears a few cities in the Wolverine State (Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids, etc.) are beginning to win people back over again.

One thing I've noticed is that outside investment interest is beginning to occur left and right in many Rust-Belt cities, yet many natives in these areas are reluctant to accept new ideas and are resistant towards change that could potentially help to bring their cities back from the ashes (See some threads about Pittsburgh, PA, as a prime example of the "stay away" mentality).

As for me, if I wasn't so wrapped up in wanting to help Scranton to bounce back, I'd put MI right up on my list of top contenders for potential relocation. I've done thorough online research, and I find communities such as Saugatuck, Traverse City, Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids, and Lansing to be quite liveable for a Liberal "Progressive" type such as myself, who plans to establish his own business. I also see much potential in the restoration of all Michigan cities; at some point, the booming southwestern Sunbelt is going to run out of potable aquifers and reservoirs, sending residents packing and heading back north, at which point interest in the "Rust-Belt" will boom once again. If Scranton, the 1990s runner-up for "Armpit of America" has begun to round the corner towards a speedy recovery, then why are you Michiganders so hellbent on deciding that places such as Flint and Detroit are beyond the point of salvation?

Before you all start to chime in, I realize I've never been to Michigan. Nevertheless, I'm an urban pioneer who'd jump at the opportunity to help breathe new life into struggling urban cores as opposed to the wealthier townships that have fleeced their respective cities of their middle-class. Give me a rundown rowhome anyday in Downtown Saginaw, and I'd restore it, sell it to an empty-nester couple or young professional single for a marginal profit, and use that profit towards the purchase of another blighted property. If people such as myself see a "light at the end of the tunnel" for the "doom and gloom" of Michigan, then why can't any of you? Do you think Scranton hasn't faced similar struggles? Nevertheless, we'll soon be home to the "Wall Street West" movement, a new medical school, and a new commuter rail line into Manhattan, all of which should combine to cause property values to SOAR! Michigan has so much unexploited potential on every corner; why can't any of you appreciate the fine qualities your state has to offer?

[southernlady5464]

Having lived in SC, GA, NC, MO, PA, CA, and even a couple of years overseas and now MI...I think I can say, the ONLY things we will miss about MI is a FEW of the people we've met here.

Took us almost 4 years to meet the neighbors. And we've been here 6 years.

Funny thing, even the local news reported this area as having the WORST housing market. County home sales plunge in 2006

Home sales and home-building tanked in Monroe County during 2006, but the housing picture still was better than other southeast Michigan counties, according to industry statistics.

Sales totaled 1,260 single-family or condo units, according to the Monroe County Association of Realtors. That was down about 15.5 percent from the 1,491 in 2005.

The average sales price was $171,000, up from $170,000 in 2005.
Meanwhile, permits for home construction fell to 499 during the year, down 31.9 percent from the 733 of 2005, according to Housing Sector Consultants, a Clarkston-based data gathering firm. But that percentage was lower than most other southeast Michigan counties, where the declines ranged as high as 55 percent.

Statewide, single-family home sales fell near 14 percent through Nov. 30, according to the Michigan Association of Realtors. Slower home sales can be hard on sellers and builders, but make it a buyer's market, industry officials said.

So I got it from a realtor...who better than one who is trying to make a living selling property in this area.

Realtors will tell you the market is bad because it gives them a scapegoat as to why they can't sell your home.

We knew before we signed with a realtor that this market was TERRIBLE. Ours has shown ours a few times...and it will sell EVENTUALLY.

Thankfully we don't have to sell it before we buy elsewhere. Liz

[JenM]

Before you all start to chime in, I realize I've never been to Michigan. Nevertheless, I'm an urban pioneer who'd jump at the opportunity to help breathe new life into struggling urban cores as opposed to the wealthier townships that have fleeced their respective cities of their middle-class. Give me a rundown rowhome anyday in Downtown Saginaw, and I'd restore it, sell it to an empty-nester couple or young professional single for a marginal profit, and use that profit towards the purchase of another blighted property. If people such as myself see a "light at the end of the tunnel" for the "doom and gloom" of Michigan, then why can't any of you? Do you think Scranton hasn't faced similar struggles? Nevertheless, we'll soon be home to the "Wall Street West" movement, a new medical school, and a new commuter rail line into Manhattan, all of which should combine to cause property values to SOAR! Michigan has so much unexploited potential on every corner; why can't any of you appreciate the fine qualities your state has to offer?
01-14-2007 05:46 PM

It's not that we can't appreciate the fine qualities of the state, but when you can't afford "the fine qualitites" then it gets discouraging. I work as a waitress ( I have for 11 years, while I'm finishing Nursing school) Now most of the newcomers, those that have started at my job within the past 2 years, are people with degrees. One girl has a Bacholers in Human Relations, another has her master in design, 2 have bachlors in teaching, and one has her bachlors in Nursing. And guess what? They all waitress. You know why? Because for every 1 job in MI, there are 1,000-2,000 applicants. The housing market stinks, really. Most of them stay on the market for 6-12 months, unless they are very, very inexpensive. Take a look at the detroit news or Macomb Daily on online... check out the jobs section, not much there huh!?

And yes yes yes, I know that "Metro detroit is not all of MI" but I've applied for many jobs in Grand Rapids and other supposedly booming towns and I've received not one call back. (And I do have certificates in several fields)

I love michigan's beauty, it's small town feel, it's magnificant old time architecture, it's hayrides, apple-picking, North American Auto show, light houses, Mackinaw Island, The Grand Hotel, it's lakes... etc., but if there are not enough good paying jobs, how to you pay to enjoy all of this? I mean you know MI is having a hard time when a family of 5, like mine, gets declined for government help because our income is too high ( our dual income is $1,500 a month) What????? I was floored, they changed the criteria for "low income" to accommidate all of the jobless families. I know I may seem to be a downer, and honestly I don't think I am, but really there is a bad situation here in MI. Now of course, it will get better, it's gonna take time, money, good planning, and all that jazz. I do see it getting better, but how long does that take? And what do i do to help contribute? Ya know what I mean?

Now I've been on this site long enough to realize that I truly do like my state. I've read, and reread about other states over and over again and MI seems to be a place where I want to be. I like the low sales tax (6%) and tax free food, and numerous grants for students, I like the balance of city, suburbs, and country. I love the pretty beaches. I do count my blessings, I mean I could've been born in a war torn country, but I'm not. I live here and must make the best of it.
But you are just talking about Scranton, the detroit metro area is much larger. Scranton has about 73,000 people, where as the detroit metro area has 4.4 million; that's a big difference. That takes quite a bit more planning, time, and money. That's a whole lot of suffering families, a whole lot of hungry children!

[The Icy River Vagabond]

Like Scranton says. He has never been here. A lot of peopple that have never been here cannot possibly understand what has happened to Detroit and Flint, they just assume that it is probably like the ghetto area in there city. Wow, are they mistaken there. All it usually takes is for an outsider to drive around in the city for a couple of hours and then they realize that it wont come back.

[southernlady5464]

Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre

Nevertheless, I'm an urban pioneer who'd jump at the opportunity to help breathe new life into struggling urban cores as opposed to the wealthier townships that have fleeced their respective cities of their middle-class. Give me a rundown rowhome anyday in Downtown Saginaw, and I'd restore it, sell it to an empty-nester couple or young professional single for a marginal profit, and use that profit towards the purchase of another blighted property.

One of our criteria for a place to live is a LOW crime rate. Our current location is half the national average of 100. Michigan, overall is a 92, but Detroit is much higher. Exact zip codes do vary but I found this on Sterling's Best Places about Detroit:

Detroit, MI, violent crime, on a scale from 1 (low crime) to 10, is 8. Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The US average is 3.

Detroit, MI, property crime, on a scale from 1 (low) to 10, is 8. Property crime includes the offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. The object of the theft-type offenses is the taking of money or property, but there is no force or threat of force against the victims. The US average is 3.

Given it's HIGH crime rate, you could not GIVE me a house in an area with that risk. I'm looking for an area similar in size what we have here but not flat. Liz

[Carrera4S]

All I know is that as soon as all the I's get dotted and the T's get crossed with regard to the aquisition of BellSouth by AT&T, I'M OUTTA HERE!!! Tennessee here I come. No more paying $4-5k to insure two cars with no tickets/accidents. No more paying $1500-2000 for homeowners insurance. No more having to volunteer for "Angel's Night" trying to prevent the knuckleheads who live here from burning the place down. No more $600 gas bills in the wintertime, HELL, NO MORE WINTERTIME!!! No more dealing with security storm doors and bars across windows. Looking forward to selling my house here, taking the proceeds to buy a bigger house down there and pay only a third of the property taxes for a bigger home. I make $80k per year AND I CANNOT AFFORD TO LIVE IN DETROIT. Bye Kwamme, bye Jennifer, bye Ford, GM and Chrysler (never bought your cars anyway). Gonna miss my Detroit Piston's, Fred Lavery Porsche/Audi and Aston Martin of Troy. Yes I'll have to pay 9.75% sales tax on the first $1600 of whatever I purchase but this will be offset by the fact that I won't have to pay local/state income taxes. When I got out of the Navy back in 1989, all I could think of was "coming home to Detroit". Turns out it wasn't one of the more 'intelligent" decisions I've made in my life. A lot of you say "Don't talk badly about Detroit". On one side, I agree with you. If you are not from here nor have ever been here then no, you have no right to speak negatively about Detroit. However, if you are like myself and have been stuck in this 'hellhole' for a number of years while at the same time dealing with all the crap you have to deal with to live here, I feel you are more than justified in dogging this place to the bitter end. Detroit has no job market to speak of. Detroit has no housing market to speak of. Detroit has no mass-transportation system to speak of. Detroit does however have redlined insurance rates and ridiculous property tax rates and I believe that the citizens of Detroit subsidize the suburbs when it comes to DTE energy bills. I recall several years ago looking at a house in N. Rosedale Park with a price of $184,000 and a house in Novi for $187,000. The taxes in Detroit were $5900 per year. The taxes in Novi, $2400. The basic makeup of cities usually goes like this.

You have Downtown
Then you have the Ghetto
Then you have the residential areas
Then you have the suburbs

In Detroit it's more like this
You have Downtown
You have the Ghetto
You have some neighborhoods
You have another Ghetto
You have some more neighborhoods
Still another Ghetto
A couple more neighborhoods
and finally,
The Suburbs