[dave w]

So 150 million of revenue 2016-17 will go to pay old debt. So are they going to borrow more money to fix current roads? Also nobody is thinking about the time when the feds increase their 18 cent a gallon tax. Our friend SEN Corker ( REP TENN) is proposing a fed increase 12-15 cents a gal for fed roads and bridges. Also ,I seen on the news yesterday that the clowns in Lansing are feverously working on plan B.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes

If it was 1/2% more and all to roads, I might vote yes. That would equate to about $150/year out of my pocket annually I am guessing. But all the twisting and turning that this proposal does gouges me for about $400-500/year and too little to roads.

I don't believe when this fails that nothing will be done. They will go back to their failed attempts at the gas tax increase and somehow, someway, will pass it. A nice combination of gas tax hike and rearranging budget priorities would be a nice compromise (to keep the hike palatable and able to squeeze through). That's just my guess though.

You spend $40,000 - $50,000 on hard retail goods every year? I'd have to piece together my retail receipts but I'm guessing it's about $2500 - $3000, mostly at Lowe's. So $25 - $30 more a year.

We'll have to be resigned to being the highest gas taxed state in the country with the worst roads (it's going to take at least 5 - 8 years to get them anywhere near "good").

[magellan]

Originally Posted by dave w

So 150 million of revenue 2016-17 will go to pay old debt. So are they going to borrow more money to fix current roads? Also nobody is thinking about the time when the feds increase their 18 cent a gallon tax. Our friend SEN Corker ( REP TENN) is proposing a fed increase 12-15 cents a gal for fed roads and bridges. Also ,I seen on the news yesterday that the clowns in Lansing are feverously working on plan B.

Of course they're working on a plan B. The roads are in desperately bad shape and are only going to get worse. And this proposal/proposition is just too complicated for average folk. Not to mention the ad campaigns probably did the cause more bad than good.

I don't really care where the money comes from at this point. I'm willing to pay more because of the amount of time I spend driving, I'm going nuts with all the crappy roads. I just hope people will stop bitching about it once something gets passed, and that we don't hear a bunch of wonks complaining about how high our gas taxes are.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by actinic

So much for the 'offered the moderator role' card.

I didn't say it was an open offer to just anyone.

[dave w]

Originally Posted by magellan

I didn't say it was an open offer to just anyone.

How does that moderator position work. I figured the Administrator assigned that position.

[dave w]

Originally Posted by magellan

Most of this seems like it was copied and pasted from some email campaign, most of which is false and exaggerated. Tell us what you really think.

But the part about other states not charging any sales tax? What states are those? Did you forget to mention that many states have county and municipal sales tax tacked onto their state sales tax? Unlike Michigan? That's why you pay a whopping 9% in Chicago (Illinois + Cook County sales tax) or why you pay 7.5% in Denver (Colorado + county sales tax). Please be honest in your comparisons.

"It wasn't that long ago that Michigan had a 4% sales tax." LOL, try 1994, which was 21 years ago. Twenty...one...years ago. Footloose was out that year I think.

"If you happen to buy a mobile home." - If you're buying a mobile home, you probably won't pay property tax like the rest of us. You can pay that extra 1%.

The fuel tax WILL be raised, almost doubled. But sales tax on gasoline will disappear. It works out to about the same.

Gas tax has always been adjusted with inflation. Why would it be fixed? Road costs aren't fixed.

Part of the sales tax increase WILL go to pay down debt/bonds we've used for past road construction, yes. Because Lansing has been trying to come up with a sales funding solution for what, 5 years now? 10? They've been borrowing money because there is none.

I love all of these opponents who have absolutely no solution to the issue. And a solution is put forward, that gives taxpayers the actual voice to vote on it, and they think it should be voted down with no plan b, c, d. nothing.

I was reading back through this post and JACKMICHIGAN is spot on about what is in prop1,none of which is false or exaggerated . There are 5 states that don't have a state wide sales tax. The MI 19 cents would be 28 cents by todays standards, it hasn't been adjusted. The infinite gas tax will start at 41 cents, 3/4 of which will be used to pay off past debt for 2 years. A good portion of the 7% sales tax would go to schools to offset the shortfall from the sales tax on gas. Go online and read the proposal it will help you understand. Not that i'm a fan of Grandholm, but she proposed a raise in gas tax to 23 cents twice and was shot down by the house. The current house was scared that voters would ask for there heads if they passed bill to raise just the gas tax that would have cost 17 cents more at pumps immediately. I'm voting no because I want a clean transportation bill. Raise the gas tax to 20 cents a gal till the roads are in shape I don't care and then scale back to the budget. They keep saying we are driving less so it should cost less to maintain the roads.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by magellan

We'll have to be resigned to being the highest gas taxed state in the country with the worst roads (it's going to take at least 5 - 8 years to get them anywhere near "good").

Engler raised the state gas tax and where are the good roads from that tax increase?

Does Prop 1 get overweight trucks off Michigan roads?

Does Prop 1 guarantee the quality/longevity of road repair?

Where is Michigan's portion of federal gas tax dollars? Michigan gets less than $1 back for every $1 sent to Washington.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by ram2

Engler raised the state gas tax and where are the good roads from that tax increase?

Does Prop 1 get overweight trucks off Michigan roads?

Does Prop 1 guarantee the quality/longevity of road repair?

Where is Michigan's portion of federal gas tax dollars? Michigan gets less than $1 back for every $1 sent to Washington.

Prop 1 is a funding mechanism, and already complicated enough. If you want new accountability measures, you should suggest those be enacted (and I don't mean here, I mean to your legislators).

[magellan]

Originally Posted by dave w

How does that moderator position work. I figured the Administrator assigned that position.

They (administrators) asked me to do it years ago, shortly after I started, because there were no Michigan moderators and a lot of trolling going on in the Michigan forums.

[westernwilly]

Originally Posted by dave w

I was reading back through this post and JACKMICHIGAN is spot on about what is in prop1,none of which is false or exaggerated . There are 5 states that don't have a state wide sales tax. The MI 19 cents would be 28 cents by todays standards, it hasn't been adjusted. The infinite gas tax will start at 41 cents, 3/4 of which will be used to pay off past debt for 2 years. A good portion of the 7% sales tax would go to schools to offset the shortfall from the sales tax on gas. Go online and read the proposal it will help you understand. Not that i'm a fan of Grandholm, but she proposed a raise in gas tax to 23 cents twice and was shot down by the house. The current house was scared that voters would ask for there heads if they passed bill to raise just the gas tax that would have cost 17 cents more at pumps immediately. I'm voting no because I want a clean transportation bill. Raise the gas tax to 20 cents a gal till the roads are in shape I don't care and then scale back to the budget. They keep saying we are driving less so it should cost less to maintain the roads.

Unfortunately it does not work that way. Spending less time in your house does not make the shingles on your roof last longer as the weather and the elements will take the same toll. Driving less (short of not driving on roads at all) is not going to make the roads anymore resilient to the freeze and thaw process that Michigan endures every year.