[Sharks With Lasers]

Originally Posted by nep321

Which of these two areas do you think would be better for me to move to with no job lined up? I'm contemplating making a move some time this spring, and will have over $70K in cash saved up, no debt, no kids, and I'll be 31 years old, gay and single.

I don't like crowded, fast paced, congested places in general, and prefer more liberal minded places. But my lifestyle, dress appearance and general behavior is conservative. I can't stand hipsters, yuppies and things like that. I am a white collar corporate type, for the most part, but can't stand pretentious people either. I just don't like places where people assume you're conservative politically. I want to be able to buy a house for under $260K by the age of 35. I do not like urban living, condos or walkability. I want a house.

I don't like public transportation and love driving a car everywhere, all the time. I also enjoy nature, peace, hiking, and the outdoors in general. I would be moving from Connecticut, so less culture shock would be a good thing, as always. I'm sure either place would be a culture shock to some degree though, since both places are "Midwestern."

Based on my own research, it seems to me that GR would clearly be a better place to live in general. But there are two things to note: One, the job market seems rather slim, but good. There seems to be VERY few jobs available in my field (corporate tax accounting), but the ones that are available seem like they are right up my alley. Detroit, on the other hand, has about 2-3 times as many job postings in my field, but the population is 4 times that of GR, so it might be just as competitive...I don't know. Two, I noticed that the gay population in Detroit metro is much higher than that of GR, probably because of sheer population. But on a per capita basis, it's much higher in GR.

One thing I like about Detroit is that it has direct flights to Hartford, to visit family. However, in GR, I know an older couple in their 50's who USED to live in the same town I grew up in, in CT and my parents still keep in touch with them all the time on Facebook. They're like family to us.

I have heard bad things about GR though, such as overwhelming Dutch conservative faith-oriented culture?! But then I also heard that people in the Detroit area in general are cold and pessimistic about things. It would also be undesirable to be associated with Detroit in general, simply because of the reputation that it has nationwide (because of the damn media). But ultimately I don't care, if it works for me.

But anyway, the key here is....WHICH place do you think I should place my bets on for moving there with NO job lined up? I'm pretty sure GR is a better place to live for me, but obviously, since moving with no job lined up is a risk, I have to be cautious. If I can find a job within 6-12 months, I'll be happy.

And please do not tell me to move with a job lined up first. It just doesn't work that way. I tried it last year for 5 months and it leads to nothing, because I wasn't a local candidate. Just answer the question as presented in this thread.

Thanks

Out of the box suggestion - move to the Lansing area.

First, Lansing is within driving distance (well, about an hour) to most of the jobs in the Detroit and Grand Rapids areas, especially if you lived near Interstate 96. You could also get Ann Arbor and the Lansing area itself in this sphere. From a quick employment search, I'd say each area is comparable for its population.

Next, the Lansing area seems to fit you politically. It's liberal and gay-friendly but (in most areas) not filled with hippies, yuppies, or pretentious people. Away from the university, it's mostly homeowners. Plus, being a somewhat smaller metro (about 400 K,) the area is not really fast-paced or congested (I don't think Grand Rapids is either though from my experience.) I guess people are about as friendly in the Lansing area as they are elsewhere.

I would say that Lansing proper is a bit rougher and more run down than Grand Rapids proper, and growth across the metro area is slower, but likely you'd choose to live in a safe area and not have to worry about it too much. I would say that the Lansing area survived the recession better than the Detroit area on average, though.

So in summary, I think that Lansing might offer you the best of all worlds, if you're willing to commute.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by nep321

Another indicator that seriously makes me suspicious of the area is the gay population. Just based on searching for profiles on a gay website, the gay population of Detroit metro is about 2 times that of the Grand Rapids metro. But the Detroit metro is FOUR times the side of GR metro. Therefore, shouldn't it have FOUR times the gay population than GR metro? That's a serious red flag right there.

There are plenty of gay folks in the Detroit area. Detroit is not a gay mecca, the area's population has been stagnant for 40 years. There is not a gayborhood here because the city's former gayborhood of Palmer Park died in the 80's due to the high crime - so many of the gays migrated a few miles north to Ferndale. Ferndale has some gay establishments, but it pales in comparison to real gayborhoods. There are a number of gay establishments in the metro area, but they spread out in various places in the neighborhoods of Detroit and in the suburbs (from Ferndale to Inkster to Pontiac). There is even one gay establishment in my Detroit neighborhood called GIGI's.

There are also a ton of "down low" gay guys (look at craigslist classified, you'll see). Maybe the gay folks in the Detroit area don't need the internet as much to hook-up/meet other guys! There are also a few gay establishments in nearby Ann Arbor and and across the river in Windsor, Ontario.

You should look for a house in Sherwood Forest or the University District. You'll be close to Ferndale and Palmer Park! Be a part of the renaissance of the city!

18245 WILDEMERE Street, Detroit MI 48221 - MLS# 214126830

[snoopygirlmi]

I'd say it depends on what kind of job you are looking for.

Detroit is the largest city in Michigan, so naturally, there will be more job opportunities. Also, you'd be surprised at the opportunities to be in nature in the Metro area.

However, GR is a great city too. Each area has its pros and cons.

[MS313]

From what you describe it sounds like your looking for a city like Grand Rapids, so I would try to find a job there first and then if not, try Detroit.

[reppin_the_847]

This is nothing to be alarmed about. Consider that much of Metro Detroit is comprised of suburbs. Most of the downriver southern suburbs of Detroit are rather blue collar in nature. Many of the folks in the other suburbs are simply raising families. Therefore, the hub of gay Detroit is probably in two areas: Ferndale / Royal Oak in the suburbs and then the Midtown / Cass Corridor areas in the city. Unfortunately for you, this probably intersects directly with the hipster population as well lol.

Just to conduct an experiment, compare NYC to Chicago. NYC probably has at least 3X the population of Chicago (same with the metro areas). Does the entire NYC Tri-State area have exactly 3X the gay population of the entire Chicagoland area?

Originally Posted by nep321

Another indicator that seriously makes me suspicious of the area is the gay population. Just based on searching for profiles on a gay website, the gay population of Detroit metro is about 2 times that of the Grand Rapids metro. But the Detroit metro is FOUR times the side of GR metro. Therefore, shouldn't it have FOUR times the gay population than GR metro? That's a serious red flag right there.

[NorthStarDelight]

I voted for Grand Rapids. It's a growing city, but still not a major metro - I think you shouldn't have too much of a problem getting a job there. But what concerns me that you're willing to move without visiting first - I think that's extremly risky. Really, you should visit two times, even three, and spending at least a week on one of the visits. How else will you know if you like it or not? But if you want to pick a place, any place in the USA to move, just to get away from CT, you'll prolly not do too bad with Grand Rapids.

Is there any way you can get some unpaid time off before May? And why the pressure to move in May? What's wrong with August, or later in the year to make the big move? I know you "hate" FF County in CT, but making a move like that, to a place you don't know, having to get a new job, being so far from family - I just think you're taking a high-risk gamble here. At least *visit* the place you'd like to move to, so you can feel better about it.

About me, and the move I didn't make (sniff, sniff) - I joined C-D in 2009, since I had the idea to move to Syracuse, NY. I asked questions, I gathered data, and I made not one visit, but three times, the more recent one lasting 5 days. Yes, I was sorely tempted to move, but I came to realize I wanted to move on the basis of climate, and some of the other factors just wasn't enough to make the move a wise decision for me. So if I'd just upped stakes and moved up there without visiting, it might not have worked out for me like I wanted. I still do check the real estate sites from time to time - there's an awesome house I found recently I'd love to buy...yeah, it's still tempting, and those awesome summers and those wonderful, green rolling hills still speak to my soul...

I'll stop here before I get carried away. I'm just saying, it's just a really good idea to get to know an area before you move - to do otherwise is like placing your life savings on black on the roulette wheel, imo.