Hagerstown....what happened to ye? (Germantown, Frederick: apartment, renters, crime)

[RayHammer]

I remember Hagerstown being a charming small city in my youth, and although it was always a waning rust-belt town during my lifetime it still had some charm.

But now? Derelicts and druggies abound, on every block, sleeping on Library steps, hanging out at corners, laying on park benches, roving the streets with some of them asking for money (in our case about a minute after getting out of our car).

This seems to be a relatively recent development, perhaps in the last 3-5 years or so since my last visit. What happened?

[SethGrayson]

Because it had low cost properties that made sense to turn into inexpensive rentals. The renters are usually druggies and their families who commute to jobs in counties closer to DC.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by SethGrayson

Because it had low cost properties that made sense to turn into inexpensive rentals. The renters are usually druggies and their families who commute to jobs in counties closer to DC.

I think you have two pretty distinct groups of renters, drug addicts, and workers who commute. Kudos to the drug users who do endure long commutes to keep the juice following; they can be a model for the others.

But seriously, Hagerstown has had a sketch-factor downtown for at least 20 years now. This isn't new, and unless you are kind of person who seeks out the worst parts of a city to visit or gets the vapors at the first sign of a poor person, Hagerstown isn't a bad place at all.

[SethGrayson]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I think you have two pretty distinct groups of renters, drug addicts, and workers who commute. Kudos to the drug users who do endure long commutes to keep the juice following; they can be a model for the others.

But seriously, Hagerstown has had a sketch-factor downtown for at least 20 years now. This isn't new, and unless you are kind of person who seeks out the worst parts of a city to visit or gets the vapors at the first sign of a poor person, Hagerstown isn't a bad place at all.

Sometimes dealers and their buddies do their business on the one hand and commute to work for their legit job on the other. Not all druggies are so far gone they can't work. Many work and then they have their high siesta at home. The "face" of many druggies is "normal". Their conduct is akin to many a shady businessman/businesswoman.

I know one dude who moved to Hagerstown. He got busted and the cops damaged a rental property my mom owned in MoCo. No jail time for him, just probation.

Now, you might ask why did we let him in the first place. Because at the time of move-in he only had records of consuming marijuana, but not harder drugs. He had some domestic violence but nothing against strangers. He also was working for the county bus system AND also had second job for a private luxury bus transportation company. He intentionally got himself fired from the county bus job after he landed his new Hagerstown living quarters.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by SethGrayson

Sometimes dealers and their buddies do their business on the one hand and commute to work for their legit job on the other. Not all druggies are so far gone they can't work. Many work and then they have their high siesta at home. The "face" of many druggies is "normal". Their conduct is akin to many a shady businessman/businesswoman.

I know one dude who moved to Hagerstown. He got busted and the cops damaged a rental property my mom owned in MoCo. No jail time for him, just probation.

Now, you might ask why did we let him in the first place. Because at the time of move-in he only had records of consuming marijuana, but not harder drugs. He had some domestic violence but nothing against strangers. He also was working for the county bus system AND also had second job for a private luxury bus transportation company. He intentionally got himself fired from the county bus job after he landed his new Hagerstown living quarters.

That guy sounds like more like a dealer and less an "addict," at least of the harder stuff, although as mentioned, some people can pull off working while sliding towards the point of no return.

The bigger point is that their is entire class of people in Hagerstown that rent and then commute because they cant' afford to live in places like Frederick or Gaithersburg and have no connection with the drug trade or criminality at all.

[SethGrayson]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

That guy sounds like more like a dealer and less an "addict," at least of the harder stuff, although as mentioned, some people can pull off working while sliding towards the point of no return.

The bigger point is that their is entire class of people in Hagerstown that rent and then commute because they cant' afford to live in places like Frederick or Gaithersburg and have no connection with the drug trade or criminality at all.

He had no prior history to indicate he was dealing. He came in looking at least professional, driving the luxury work bus on his first. He only had a record of consuming marijuana, which is being de-stigmatized and I followed along with the trend.
He became a dealer during the middle of the tenancy. At the beginning, he didn't.
The most glaring change in behavior is that my mom had to wait 2 hours just for him to collect rent. He wasn't just dealing in pot either, but also coke according to the search warrant.

My experience is that most drug consumers are recreationalists who can work but just like the dealers, they have a honed business sense. It makes sense to me. Drugs are simply a business that is merely declared illegal.



Another family I know of also moved to Hagerstown or other places north of Montgomery County. Before, they were neighbors who managed to stuff an entire extended family into one townhouse. Most of the adults are indeed, like you described, just workers who aren't into drugs. But the son of one of the women in the family attacked his aunt with a sword when the aunt told him to pay off library fines, meaning the end of that arrangement. The mom would first move to an apartment in Germantown, and then Hagerstown.

Their character was "better", but they left the house they used to reside in very messy; the residence the vacated was fully renovated afterwards and the numerous black cockroaches that would enter my neighboring unit stopped showing up. They were also secretive about that son's character, as I learned the aforementioned facts via reading a court transcript regarding his assault. Prior to learning this, my mom had consented to renting to this guy merely because of friendly terms with the mother of the assaulter. While not a threat to criminal acts towards other, he certainly kept contact with fellow scum from jail and engaged in duplicitous behavior, such as him changing up the gas bill name without consent and attempting to be some "property manager" while wanting a 20% cut of the rent, which is double what professional property managers charge.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by SethGrayson

He had no prior history to indicate he was dealing. He came in looking at least professional, driving the luxury work bus on his first. He only had a record of consuming marijuana, which is being de-stigmatized and I followed along with the trend.
He became a dealer during the middle of the tenancy. At the beginning, he didn't.
The most glaring change in behavior is that my mom had to wait 2 hours just for him to collect rent. He wasn't just dealing in pot either, but also coke according to the search warrant.

My experience is that most drug consumers are recreationalists who can work but just like the dealers, they have a honed business sense. It makes sense to me. Drugs are simply a business that is merely declared illegal.



Another family I know of also moved to Hagerstown or other places north of Montgomery County. Before, they were neighbors who managed to stuff an entire extended family into one townhouse. Most of the adults are indeed, like you described, just workers who aren't into drugs. But the son of one of the women in the family attacked his aunt with a sword when the aunt told him to pay off library fines, meaning the end of that arrangement. The mom would first move to an apartment in Germantown, and then Hagerstown.

Their character was "better", but they left the house they used to reside in very messy; the residence the vacated was fully renovated afterwards and the numerous black cockroaches that would enter my neighboring unit stopped showing up. They were also secretive about that son's character, as I learned the aforementioned facts via reading a court transcript regarding his assault. Prior to learning this, my mom had consented to renting to this guy merely because of friendly terms with the mother of the assaulter. While not a threat to criminal acts towards other, he certainly kept contact with fellow scum from jail and engaged in duplicitous behavior, such as him changing up the gas bill name without consent and attempting to be some "property manager" while wanting a 20% cut of the rent, which is double what professional property managers charge.

Consider court records like icebergs, for every crime that pokes above the surface, assume 3 or 4 other he got away with and hide below the surface.

It sounds like you had some bad breaks with renters and I certainly don't deny the "sketch factor" in Hagerstown, but again, it has been that way for at least 20 years in my observation. I don't think drugs or bad renters define the community though, certain neighborhoods, yes, but the city is more than just the bad places. Hagerstown's issue is that much of this sketch factor is downtown near the city core which makes it more visible.

[Action Required]

Show me ANY town in America that does not have its share of addicts. It does not exist.

[The Very Man Himself]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Consider court records like icebergs, for every crime that pokes above the surface, assume 3 or 4 other he got away with and hide below the surface.

It sounds like you had some bad breaks with renters and I certainly don't deny the "sketch factor" in Hagerstown, but again, it has been that way for at least 20 years in my observation. I don't think drugs or bad renters define the community though, certain neighborhoods, yes, but the city is more than just the bad places. Hagerstown's issue is that much of this sketch factor is downtown near the city core which makes it more visible.

I haven't been in maybe 15 years, but I think you nailed it.

[MidValleyDad]

In the last 10 years the downtown area has cleaned up a lot and was actually seeing some new life before the pandemic. The jury is still out on whether that will continue