Question About Sprawl/Developement Along 270/70-Monty to Hagerstown (Germantown, Bethesda: real estate, how much)

[Hudlander]

I had a question, several actually, about sprawl and development in Maryland.

Usually when I go to PA, I take 15 to 70. I've seen Point of Rocks have sprawl, followed by some open space before a lot of sprawl in Fredick-Braddock Heights-then the valley past South Mountain into Hagerstown.
Only then, west of Hagerstown, does it seem really rural.

The other day I was able to take 70-270-495-66, (man when there is no traffic that is so much smoother than 15-7-28!). Anyway, I was amazed really at the landscape. To me, Eastern Frederick County along I-70 looks LESS built up and more RURAL than I-70 west of Frederick.
It's like a total paradox....one would expect the closer you get to DC the more developed and vice versca.
Yet, even once you approach Montgomery County, if you showed me Upper Monty vs. Eastern Washington County, I swear Upper Monty was the more rural location.
Only when you approach Clarksburg, and really, Germantown, does full blown suburbia begin.
Fascinating really. This rasied a few questions:

1) Why is this the case? Conventional one would think, closer to the city=more sprawl; away from the city=more rural. Yet, a described it's more of a checkerboard.

Is this a function of Maryland/The US being more polycentric with multiple job centers/corridors OR is this a really good example of why LOCAL level planning and zoning PUSHES sprawl FURTHER OUT?

In other words...is the "ruralness" of Upper Monty kept at the expense of urbanization in Frederick/Western Frederick County to Hagerstown?

2) In a vaccum, I LOVE the way Monty has kept development tied in close to the beltway and I-270 while keeping vast areas undeveloped. That's the way, in theory, I like it. Urban growth boundaries.
I wonder though if, in the real world, the problem is Monty keeping the Upper portion rural is just pushing development further out?

Part of me wonders if things would be better off if Monty "opened up" most of the county so developments are built there, closer to the major urban core, than out in Washington County.

3) Monty v Fairfax.
I find it interesting that Fairfax County, despite being smaller in size AND having limited real estate inside the beltway (Arlington and Alex do not count towards FFX County's population), has a higher population and much higher density rate.

Is this due to something Monty/FFX planners have done OR is this more or less a function of VA having more job centers nearby?

Monty has DC/Bethesda/I-270 corridor
FFX has DC/Arl-Alex/TYSONS/PENTAGON/Reston-Herndon/Dulles?

4) Is Dulles the REAL factor here?
-Monty pushes out further west from the core, so it makes some sense they would have more rural land...BUT Loudoun has intense development. I wonder how much of this is local planning vs. the impact of Dulles Airport?

If Dulles airport was placed in Burke (as orginially requested) OR say Gaithersburg OR never built....would western FFX/Eastern Loudoun be more like Upper Monty and vice versca?

5) Finally, I've derided Maryland for awhile, but is the example of Monty preserving ruralness an indication that perhaps Maryland is a BETTER planning-friendly state than Virginia?
OR, as thought, is this just the impacts of Dulles/Job Centers/and in fact could it be argued VA is a better planning state since FFX has so much density, putting less pressure on the hinterland?

[dkf747]

Maryland is the better planning state, IMO. I can't say much about the rest yet.

[seanlax]

Originally Posted by dkf747

Maryland is the better planning state, IMO. I can't say much about the rest yet.

I used to work at the Maryland Department of Planning and I can absolutely agree. Besides some of the more recent hiccups (Plan Maryland...) planning is very strong in the state and you just are seeing the results.

Also, MoCo has been a big proponent of rural preservation and the county has been using TIFs and TDRs for a long time now.

[ki0eh]

Try going up and down I-81 or I-83 next time to see how MD exports its sprawl to WV and PA.

[Jahodor]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

try going up and down i-81 or i-83 next time to see how md exports its sprawl to wv and pa.

+1

[westsideboy]

The Ag. Preserve in upper Montgomery pushes development north to Urbana. After that you have another "hole in the donut" because of the Monocacy Battlefield.

Eastern Frederick County is more rural north of I-70, and more developed south of the road down towards Urbana.

Middletown is more developed because it is valley land, not rolling piedmont. The land is largely already cleared for Ag, and is prime for development. The area and little hamlet are very pretty, the land virtually sells itself.

Same with the western side of South Mountain. You get easy access to I-70, pretty views, and land already "half way there" because of agriculture.

So, planning has resulted in development being pushed further out. More scenic areas that are closer to major interstates tend to be developed before less accessable, less scenic areas, even if the later are technically "closer" to the cities. Some some of the development patterns could be called "planned," but largely those are "no build" or "low build" areas being stuck in the middle of other land that would otherwise be in demand, which pushes development out further.

[seanlax]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

Try going up and down I-81 or I-83 next time to see how MD exports its sprawl to WV and PA.

Yes and their local governments made a a choice to allow low density sprawl that costs more in services than is brought in from taxes. This greatly reduces the extent to which those outlying communities can develop, which proves beneficial for current residents.

[Dequindre]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

Try going up and down I-81 or I-83 next time to see how MD exports its sprawl to WV and PA.

MD exports a lot of terribly planned sprawl to West Virginia. The Martinsburg area is a logistical nightmare, but developers like the fact that they can put whatever they want where they want.

I would actually like to see MORE sprawl around Pennsylvania's I-81 corridor. Development want happening at a rapid pace before the recession, but since then, it's ground to a halt.

[Dequindre]

Originally Posted by seanlax

Yes and their local governments made a a choice to allow low density sprawl that costs more in services than is brought in from taxes. This greatly reduces the extent to which those outlying communities can develop, which proves beneficial for current residents.

Low-density sprawl is really all the area (I-81 corridor) can support. People come to the I-81 corridor to buy homes that are less expensive, yet provide more square footage than a comparable house in the D.C. suburbs. I can't imagine too many high-density, mixed-use developments being successful in communities like Hagerstown, Martinsburg, Chambersburg, and Winchester in the near future.

[Hudlander]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

The Ag. Preserve in upper Montgomery pushes development north to Urbana. After that you have another "hole in the donut" because of the Monocacy Battlefield.

Eastern Frederick County is more rural north of I-70, and more developed south of the road down towards Urbana.

Middletown is more developed because it is valley land, not rolling piedmont. The land is largely already cleared for Ag, and is prime for development. The area and little hamlet are very pretty, the land virtually sells itself.

Same with the western side of South Mountain. You get easy access to I-70, pretty views, and land already "half way there" because of agriculture.

So, planning has resulted in development being pushed further out. More scenic areas that are closer to major interstates tend to be developed before less accessable, less scenic areas, even if the later are technically "closer" to the cities. Some some of the development patterns could be called "planned," but largely those are "no build" or "low build" areas being stuck in the middle of other land that would otherwise be in demand, which pushes development out further.

So basically, my theory was correct that while Monty does a great job of "preserving" the ruralness of Upper Monty....all this does is just make it so Fredneck/Hagerstown are more developed and sprawled?

So pretty much, in theory, it would have been better if Monty developed the entire county, that way Fredneck/Hagerstown would be rural?

I really hate "checkerboards" because, it's not really that rural when you have sprawl on either side.
It'd be better to condense it all to one side.