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I believe Police are now dealing with much more fringe violent crime.. more guns, more serious drugs, and just an overall more dangerous enviroment then ever before here in Maine..
You might be right, although Maine has long had a drug problem, if not as obviously as other places. Maine is still safer per capita than just about anywhere else, and I think part of the reason might be because guns are so prevalent. As Heinlein once said, "An armed society is a polite society." It gives bad actors pause when they consider that homeowners might greet them with a shotgun. That's a major reason most burglaries occur in unoccupied homes, while in Britain most occur in when the owners are present.
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Again its my perception... Though I do talk to folks and I am somewhat "in the know" .. Many retail establishments will tell you about the increased problems they are facing with theft. And we are now starting to see more state and federal level crimes being commited..
Being an outsider (not origionally from Maine) it may seem odd for me to say this but Places like Portland, Lewiston ect have had an influx of people from "away" and the I believe the "perception" of crime is justifiably worse then ever before here in Maine...
NOTE* Many of you posters out there hail from the northern part of the state and my best guess is that Bangor will be next..
Bangor is already happening. I have relatives in the Bangor-Brewer area, and they tell me that "bath salts" are the new and growing problem. In fact, I was in Bangor last year, driving through some of my old neighborhoods (I used to live there when in college) and stopped at a yard sale on Cumberland Street. A young couple with a toddler were selling kitchen stuff, old books, baby stuff. Off to the side were used tools and gardening equipment, not for sale but being repaired and cleaned by the guy. He said they were moving to a small farm in the countryside outside Bangor because they didn't want to raise their children in town and wanted to be able to grow their own food. Bath salts were being sold at a house just down the streets, and "all kinds of weirdos were stumbling by in the middle of the night," he said.
Another factor, in particular with thefts, is the continuing economic troubles IMHO. We had a problem last summer with two guys in a pickup truck driving through neighborhoods at night and stealing firewood from piles near the curb. My neighbor lost a bunch, and they even came into my driveway and made off with a few armloads. They were bundling and selling the firewood to campers at a local campground. Both men, from what we learned later, had been unemployed for months and needed the money.
I wish I could credit guns for the low crime, but...
Maine's crime and safety environment is an interesting discussion.
Last week, there was some discussion that Maine is also the least religious state and people in some other online forums suggested that we're not violent because we're not religious.
I doubt it, even though some in the discussion pointed out various Southern states with high crime and yet had a high weekly church attendance. I know a lot of very religious, yet ultra-peaceful people. The idea of Fundamentalist, Christian, war mongers is emotionally appealing, but on the whole, doesn't hold a lot of water for me.
Others say that guns make a society more polite. Perhaps, but there are very safe states with lots of guns (Maine, VT), and somewhat dangerous states (TX, Alaska, TN) with lots of guns too. Crime indeed has been going down nationwide all while gun ownership is climbing, but the thing is crime is going down even in places that aren't seeing increases in gun ownership (MA for example.)
I like the idea of citizen gun ownership, but like religion, I don't see a clear link between guns, religion, and crime, though I think gun ownership does slow home invasions some in places known to have a high gun ownership rate.
No, what I think explains Maine's relative violent crime safety are three, rather boring, blase, things:
1.) We are a very old, elderly state....the nation's oldest in fact. Old people do not commit many violent crimes.
2.) We don't have any big cities and not a whole lot of even medium-sized ones. Yes, some crime happens in rural areas (domestic abuse and drugs), but by and large, violent crime happens in cities and we supposedly are the nation's most rural state.
3.) Heatand lack thereof. Need I say more? It's long been known that crime goes up when the temperature goes up despite the prevalence of modern air conditioning (poorer areas are still fairly un-air conditioned) and this to me explains why places like TX, FL, AZ, TN, MS, GA, all seem to suffer so much violent crime, etc., etc.
By all means go to church and own a gun, but face it, our state is the safest because by and large, we're a bunch of old people living out in cold, rural country.
(Alaska is also cold and has lots of firearm ownership, but it's not an old population, and Anchorage is a pretty big metro area actually. Alaska also still has a higher percentage of males than many other places owning to the stream of energy and oil field workers over the years. Speaking of which, watch for North Dakota's crime rate to pop some now that there is a large influx of workers, mainly young and male, coming to work in ND's Bakken oil field developments.)
I think a lot/most/all factors contribute to the effect, but states can't always be directly compared based on just a few factors. Being 'non-religious could be a part of it since non-religious people may often (but not necessarily) be so due to having a higher level of education, and such educated people may be less prone to criminal activity...which is not to say that there are no educated criminals. The article, however, does not make the condition of being 'non-religious' equivalent to 'atheist'. The slant of the article was more toward saying that many people are dropping out of the mainstream religions but still retaining some aspect of 'spirituality' rather than becoming atheistic.
As far as MA goes, when I lived there I almost *always* carried- and was glad I did on a number of occasions (*attempted* robberies/car-jacking) which were not work-related. At least a couple of other people were glad I did too, when I intervened during assaults. You might be surprised at the number of people in MA who are 'packing heat' without anyone being aware of it.
Maine's crime and safety environment is an interesting discussion.
Last week, there was some discussion that Maine is also the least religious state and people in some other online forums suggested that we're not violent because we're not religious.
I doubt it, even though some in the discussion pointed out various Southern states with high crime and yet had a high weekly church attendance. I know a lot of very religious, yet ultra-peaceful people. The idea of Fundamentalist, Christian, war mongers is emotionally appealing, but on the whole, doesn't hold a lot of water for me.
Others say that guns make a society more polite. Perhaps, but there are very safe states with lots of guns (Maine, VT), and somewhat dangerous states (TX, Alaska, TN) with lots of guns too. Crime indeed has been going down nationwide all while gun ownership is climbing, but the thing is crime is going down even in places that aren't seeing increases in gun ownership (MA for example.)
I like the idea of citizen gun ownership, but like religion, I don't see a clear link between guns, religion, and crime, though I think gun ownership does slow home invasions some in places known to have a high gun ownership rate.
No, what I think explains Maine's relative violent crime safety are three, rather boring, blase, things:
1.) We are a very old, elderly state....the nation's oldest in fact. Old people do not commit many violent crimes.
2.) We don't have any big cities and not a whole lot of even medium-sized ones. Yes, some crime happens in rural areas (domestic abuse and drugs), but by and large, violent crime happens in cities and we supposedly are the nation's most rural state.
3.) Heatand lack thereof. Need I say more? It's long been known that crime goes up when the temperature goes up despite the prevalence of modern air conditioning (poorer areas are still fairly un-air conditioned) and this to me explains why places like TX, FL, AZ, TN, MS, GA, all seem to suffer so much violent crime, etc., etc.
By all means go to church and own a gun, but face it, our state is the safest because by and large, we're a bunch of old people living out in cold, rural country.
(Alaska is also cold and has lots of firearm ownership, but it's not an old population, and Anchorage is a pretty big metro area actually. Alaska also still has a higher percentage of males than many other places owning to the stream of energy and oil field workers over the years. Speaking of which, watch for North Dakota's crime rate to pop some now that there is a large influx of workers, mainly young and male, coming to work in ND's Bakken oil field developments.)
I'd add
4, we dont have the racial tensions and gangs that other states have
5, in small towns "where everyone knows your name" you dont get away with much-unlike large populations, where you get lost in a crowd
Waaaay back in 1965 my sister and her husband came to visit me in Rockland, ME when I was stationed on CGC Laurel. They stayed at Thorndyke Hotel and on their first night's stay their car was broken into and anything of value was stolen. First time that happened to them and they travelled quite a bit.
I was kind of shocked because I had been there for 3 years and had not been a victim of any thing like that and practically lived out of my car on weekends, etc. and always had stuff in it.
Worse thing that happened to me there was when I (a pedestrian) was run over by a drunk taxi driver on Main Street.(:
Anyway, stuff like that happened back in the day in small town Maine. I don't recall any drug activity back then, just a lot of beer drinking.
You might be right, although Maine has long had a drug problem, if not as obviously as other places. Maine is still safer per capita than just about anywhere else, and I think part of the reason might be because guns are so prevalent. As Heinlein once said, "An armed society is a polite society." It gives bad actors pause when they consider that homeowners might greet them with a shotgun. That's a major reason most burglaries occur in unoccupied homes, while in Britain most occur in when the owners are present.
Cite your source that claims that in Great Britain most burglaries occur when owners are present.
Burglars are opportunists. They go for the easiest path between two points. Unoccupied homes are robbed because it is easier to get away with it. Burglars who are looking for quick money have no interest in screwing with people or dealing with the side-consequences of tenants or residents.
I am anti-gun control but I know there is no direct correlation between lax gun laws and safety. Maine is safer because it is rural, 'off the beaten path', and overwhelmingly white. As I stated earlier, burglars are opportunists and when combined with an urge for a quick fix and/or being flat broke they will not study the gun laws of a community in order to find the most gun-free zone to rob. That's silly rhetoric.
Well, I've just had an interesting romp through the statistics presented by the UK Home Office, the British Crime Survey and other sources, as well as the history of gun control in England. Even if we use the "official" stats by the Home Office (which have been under investigation for seriously under-reporting criminal activity), and not taking into account that a large number of crimes go 'unreported' (both because of police tactics to lump multiple offenses as a single crime or to fail to record a crime, and because a significant percentage of the victims do not report their victimization because of a perception of police ineffectuality), the British crime rate has significantly increased, including gun related crimes, despite draconian firearms bans (even the Olympic pistol team must go to foreign countries to practice). Handgun crime *increased* by 40% after the ban in 1997.
According to Tesco (British insurance company), 56% of burglaries occur when the home is occupied.
The UK robbery rate is nearly 50% higher than the US, and the burglary rate is about double that of the US. (Joint study by US DOJ and Cambridge University in England)
Want more?
Canada- Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser has reported that there has been a dramatic *increase* in violent crime since the Canadian government enacted stricter giun control laws in the 1990s.
Australia- 6 years after their strict gun control laws were enacted, armed robberies had risen by 51% and unarmed robberies by 37%; assaults rose by 24% and kidnappings by 43%.
According to Tesco (British insurance company), 56% of burglaries occur when the home is occupied.
It's not really compelling. It's just data. This specific piece is all I wanted.
There is no reason to infer in this statistic - nor any reasonable deduction that can be made - that these burglars targeted the places because they were occupied. Once again, they are opportunists. 3/10 burglaries in the UK are through an open window or door. I believe 4/10 are through an unlocked door. When are windows usually open and unlocked? When people are home. Doesn't mean they took to the houses because they enjoy home invasions. It means they wanted in and the easiest way between two points was something unlocked or open.
That being said, I would assume the occupancy of UK homes is much higher than most US cities. UK is smaller, and it caters to a larger population in proportion to the area. Plus, their infrastructure is much more urbanized I would venture to guess. So the frequency of empty homes is likely much smaller over there. This, coupled with the stats on opportunistic burglars, points to no consensus correlation other than the fact that burglars rob whatever is easy, fast, and with the biggest windfall.
This particular site only shows 10 years worth of data but it is showing a slight decrease consistently over 10 years. Theft of person has slightly decreased over that time as well.
This one claims Canadian burglaries are down 56% since 1991.
So your cite of Gary Mauser seems off.
Also, your bit about the under-reporting of crime happens everywhere. It happens just as much over here, I'm sure. So if you're gonna hypothetically jack up the crime rate of the UK according to this assumption, might as well do the same with the US.
In addition, as a sidenote: Tesco is a not an insurance company. Tesco is the UK Wal-Mart. A grocer/retailer/bank/financial services.
That being said, as I stated...don't like gun control. But I also don't like abusing stats...and both sides of this issue like to do that.
Last edited by michael_atw; 05-23-2012 at 04:16 PM..
your bit about the under-reporting of crime happens everywhere. It happens just as much over here, I'm sure. So if you're gonna hypothetically jack up the crime rate of the UK according to this assumption, might as well do the same with the US.
Of course under-reporting occurs, I think I only reported one criminal act perpetrated against me- mainly because I wasn't present and needed the police report for the insurance claim. The others weren't reported because I came out on top and I didn't feel that anything more needed to be done, not to mention the hassle that *I* would have had to go through.
However, you should take note that I did *not* "hypothetically jack up the rate", I intentionally said "even if we use the 'official' stats, while merely noting that they could be lower than actual. No 'jacking up'.
Bangor is already happening. I have relatives in the Bangor-Brewer area, and they tell me that "bath salts" are the new and growing problem. In fact, I was in Bangor last year, driving through some of my old neighborhoods (I used to live there when in college) and stopped at a yard sale on Cumberland Street. A young couple with a toddler were selling kitchen stuff, old books, baby stuff. Off to the side were used tools and gardening equipment, not for sale but being repaired and cleaned by the guy. He said they were moving to a small farm in the countryside outside Bangor because they didn't want to raise their children in town and wanted to be able to grow their own food. Bath salts were being sold at a house just down the streets, and "all kinds of weirdos were stumbling by in the middle of the night," he said.
People have little idea of the magnitude of the 'growing problem' particularly in the last 5 years. Either that, or they like to perpetually live in denial (I haven't figured this one out yet). Bath salts are positively diabolical.
Also, it's not just out of staters moving up here, it's economically depressed areas of this state that are causing migration toward the cities as well.
As far as gangs are concerned - they may not be the true 'bloods' or the true 'crips' but make no mistake about it - they are in the state, and most certainly in the Bangor area now.
This is a tag that is seen with relative frequency in the area.
Interesting that you mention Cumberland Street. Cumberland Street was where Bobby Surles was killed on January 28, 2010. There were 12+ teenagers involved in that fight that night. Call it '12+ teenagers' or call it a 'gang' - the end result was the same.
Granted, we're no Boston or NYC, but it's alarming to those who live up here because of the increasing frequency of drugs and violence. The incident on First Street just last night further illustrates this point.
The Bangor PD can only do so much to deter this activity. Laws which actually have the teeth of miserable consequences would be a nice start.
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I wish I could credit guns for the low crime, but...
