Are the adults in Madison non-conformist also, or is that just the students? (Green Bay: fit in)

[12thNight]

I went to law school in Madison and thought it seemed like a wonderful place to live, but I was only able to see it through the eyes of a student (with very little time to do anything enjoyable). I now want to move back, but I would like to hear from people who live there as adults whether I may be just idealizing it in my mind.

What I care about in a place to live - I already know there is enough culture and recreation to keep me happy, and I don't need to worry about work at all, and I know about housing costs, and don't have or plan to have any kids. I'm 38 years old and what I've noticed about where I live now (Green Bay) is that people seem very uptight and conformist. If I wear clothing that is a slight bit eccentric, I get strange judgmental looks. I make a good living yet I prefer the freedom of not owning a home, but when people around here hear this, they think I'm foolish. It seems like life is all about impressing everyone else. I recall Madison being different than that...but is that because I was younger and a student, or are even the adult professionals in Madison less conformist and more relaxed?

[Newbern]

Madison is just as conformist, in some ways, militantly so, as any other area. A great example of this is during all the manufactured protests, there were about 5 kids in downtown appleton with signs, walking around. No one paid them any attention. Put on a suit and tie, have a bible in your hand and go down to state street and walk around, telling people about christianity and see what you get.

I guess if you're worried about what people think of you, then you too are a conformist--you just need more people around you that are conforming to your definition of non-conformists.

[12thNight]

That's a good point, Newbern. I think you are right, and what I really wanted to know was whether the adult professionals are progressive and relaxed, compared to other places.

[7G9C4J2]

Well, it really depends on where you work. Some professions are a whole lot more rigid and conformist than others.

I see you mention attending law school at the UW, so I'm guessing that you are likely still in the legal profession. In general, most of the attorneys I see are pretty much in still the three-piece-suit-and-tie mode, at least while they're at work. Certainly there are exceptions to that, but given that most attorneys either have government jobs or work at one of the big law firms, there still seems to be a general expectation that attorneys are supposed to be formal in their attire and behavior.

In the IT world, on the other hand, folks would look at you like you had grown a second head if you showed up in a suit and tie. My elder kid and her partner are both employed in different areas of IT, in fairly senior positions, and they both routinely go to work in shorts, t-shirts and sandals.

There's also a lot of variation in attitudes depending on where in the city you live, and what groups you tend to hang out with. There are definitely parts of town where people would look askance at you for saying that you're not interested in keeping up with the Joneses. There are also areas where you'd fit in pretty well. And while you'd possibly get the hairy eyeball if you told a blue-haired matron at the symphony that you're not interested in owning a home, if you said the same thing at Vegan-Fest, you'd likely get a very different reaction.

Speaking strictly for myself, the adult professionals in my life (friends, family, colleagues) are all fairly laid-back and non-judgmental. I think most of them could be reasonably described as progressive, or at least open-minded. I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say the entire city is like that, but the folks I know well here fit that description.

[Megan1967]

Madison tends to be more live and let live than other places, but Midwestern Book Worm is correct, it all depends on where you work and live - and what you are doing.

Madison is a diverse city in that respect. You have people who are very conservative in dress and habits and those who are quite non-traditional.

Professionals are still expected to dress the part - IT not withstanding. In your personal life, however, you can do whatever you like.

People will judge you based on your appearance and actions wherever you live. Some will judge you positively while at the very same time others will judge you negatively for the very same things.

People conform to group standards in both directions. In the Willy Street neighborhood, for example, people "conform" to a liberal progressive life style. You may agree with and value the same things as them, but don't be mistaken, your peers will put pressure on you to try to live up to the collective values. Don't even think of using Round up on weeds in this neighborhood. A LOT of people are vegetarian or even vegan and while you might not be harshly judged for not adopting this lifestyle, you will definitely get bonus points if you do. Recycling, re-purposing, buying used products, composting, etc.- these are all things people "expect" of one another in this neighborhood.

[Ragnar]

I find that Madison is a really interesting mix of the keeping up with the Joneses crowd and people who really don't care. As mentioned above, tt really depends a lot on where in town you live, what profession you have and what friends you hang with. WI has really lax auto maintenance rules (no emissions tests, inspections, etc.), so you see a lot of old road trash beater cars around Madison. Many of these are driven by professionals who really don't care about driving a newer, trendy vehicle.

[Drover]

They both tend to conform to the same brand of "non"-conformity.

[SecuritiesLaw]

I apologize for the late response, but I'm just coming back to these boards myself.

I'm not sure I can comment on the conformity (and this word is dangerous because it's going to draw the whole anti-establishment crowd to mind) of the city as a whole, but professionally, it is very much more relaxed around here than in many places. I'm not sure where the three-piece suit sighting came from, but it is most definitely not the norm in Madison. Most gov't lawyers wear chino's to work here, and are rarely seen in ties unless they have a meeting at the capitol. Firms obviously still often require a suit when meeting with clients, but Foley & Lardner (easily the most rigid firm in the area) now even has casual Fridays. Everyone at Nakoma CC can usually be found in shorts or golf pants and a polo.

As far as attitude, I can't compare it to a rural atmosphere like GB, but compared to large city biglaw, it's absolutely less traditionally conformist. This isn't to say there's not billable hour requirements, endless marketing dinners, etc....but there's a much more open door feel here than a major market. In my experience this is less a choice, than a reflection of the type of clients a given market has, and even at events, there is an overall less rigid demeanor from clients in the Madison area.

I'm not sure what other specifics you're looking for, but feel free to ask or give an example if you'd like. I'm assuming from your statement that you don't have to worry about work at all that you'd either be transferring to your firms local office, or have an existing practice.

Good luck!