California vs. Affordable Housing????? (Sacramento, Santa Monica: sale, mortgage, loans)
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The first move I made away from L.A. as an adult was to go somewhere more "affordable". Once I got there, looking for homes was depressing because I don't like new houses at all. I'm a huge fan of Mid Century Modern, Streamline Moderne, Craftsman, Spanish Revival and the occasional Prairie. The thing that horrified me about this city was the mind set...everyone hated the old homes (there were very few left) and sung the praises of the ugly, soulless McMansions. It actually made me nauseous to drive past neighborhood after neighborhood of the same 3 houses painted 3 colors and the viror with which people bought them. The place was almost as bad as Texas. I lived in Texas for 4 years as a kid. I don't need 4000 square feet. We don't even need 2000 square feet. More on this in a minute.
Anyway, I moved back to L.A. because I was starved for culture, great weather, the urban vibe, live music, museums, premieres...I could go on. I really missed the ocean too. I was really happy to be back. Through a strange turn of events, I moved to Hawaii 3 years later. Hawaii makes L.A. look dirt cheap. It took me 3x the money to live there than it did in L.A. No worries, I made a fantabulous living there. I had a big 2-story 100 year-old plantation house and a 2 bedroom beach house on the other side of the island. The big house was a pain in the okole. I wanted to get rid of it and go live in my small house and in the end that's what I did...for the last month I was there.
I'm now back in L.A. and I'll never leave again. Money was the dumbest reason I ever left L.A. because the opportunities here are limitless. Although things are more expensive than say...Dallas...living in a place like that isn't even an option for me. I couldn't do it. I know Dallas, my grandfather on my mother's side lived there. Dreadful place IMHO. Nice looking downtown but the weather and culture and proximity (away from) the ocean are all deal breakers. Saying that, I see why some people like it.
I walk every day. I walk to the subway and Metro Rapid. I walk to have coffee with likeminded nuts like myself. I can walk to theatre. I walk to gorgeous old theaters showing new releases, foriegn films and classics as well. I can walk to stores that sell things you've never imagined. When I don't do that, I drive my convertible. I can put my top down all year. This isn't my first convertible and for this reason. I open my windows in my house all year because I can. Since I've moved into this place, I've never closed them. My neighborhood is gorgeous and I walk by a plethora of old homes and mansions with gorgeous yards. My housing here is affordable by L.A. standards. I live in a gorgeous walkable urban village with dining, entertainment, shops and transportation all within easy walking distance. I can go to a different museum every day from now until the first of next July. I have cultural and entertainment opportunities many people never dream of. My first night back in L.A. I went to a gallery opening...one of those fancy ones in BH. The next night I went to live music performed by a friend of a friend. Things like that just happen in L.A. A couple days later I had the opportunity to be in a movie even though I'm not an actor. I did it. After that I made two more. I was walking home from the last movie I made and happened upon the Oceans 13 premiere. Red carpet, limos, George Clooney, Andy Garcia...it was cool. I saw 2 more premieres in the next few weeks. I had some celeb encounters as well. It was a great welcome home. I quickly remembered what I missed...on top of what I missed. I went back and visited the patchwork of different areas I love...all with different look, vibe and weather. Seeing the gifted street performers at 3rd Street Promenade was another treat.
Where I live is accepting of people regardless of religious beliefs, sexual preference or political views (although Republicans are by far the minority, thank God). I love the diversity as well. It makes the culture far more interesting. I love this place for who lives here but also for who doesn't.
L.A. isn't for everyone. For those of us who love it, it offers so much that we wouldn't (and couldn't) live anywhere else. For those who don't dig L.A., there's the rest of the world....and many places far more expensive. Within our city are many microcultures as well. This is my home, 3rd generation. I've done the experiments and I'm here to stay.
Jeez, that actually made me cry! Yeah, no lie! While I'm not really into the whole "celeb" thing - absolutely everything else you said was so beautiful & so much why I long for LA that I just may steal it & quote it some when others constantly ask me WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU TRYING TO MOVE TO LA????
I live in Minnesota & this state undeniably has breathtakingly beautiful natural resources that I have grown to love & appreciate so very much. And, my son, grandson, & the majority of my family are here. Those are all selling points. BUT, LA calls me!
Everything is not financial - although financial means, or lack there of, can seriously impact opportunity. I cannot ever see myself considering moving to anywhere in Texas, ever - no offensive intended to Texans - but, my mindset & the Texan way (stereotypically speaking) just don't mesh.
Weather may be one motivating factor for me to move to LA (as I have health issues that would be better served out of MN winters), but I cannot see myself in many alternative areas. Everyone has different motivating factors. For financial reasons I moved from a lovely "walkable urban village" in Mpls to this suburban nightmare I am in now. I had tried one other stint in the suburbs a few years back but have never quite experienced "home" in any place but the city.
I have gone from a respectable total income of about $65,000 a year to now living on under $1000 per month due to disability. I live on subsidized housing after once owning my own home. I don't require much. There is a possibility that "this" will be the sort of income that I will continue to live on. I don't believe this should necessitate my giving up my hopes, dreams, desires for the future or for a sense of community with like-minded people.
Having scoured the LA rental market (especially for Section 8 housing), I often wonder how on earth "poo folk" (that's when you are REALLY poor & can't even afford the "r") manage to live in these high COL areas & why those who don't have some sort of affinity for them just don't find someplace more affordable. (I realize there are countless reasonable reasons - that was just sort of rhetorical).
While I appreciate the "finer" things in life, I have no fascination with nor need for any of the material. I want the energy & the pulse of the city. I want the cultural diversity & the general open & accepting attitude of our differences & the greater likelihood to see them as our strengths. I love the ocean & find it almost spiritual. I love finding free "entertainment" in a walk through the neighborhood, people watching, & the beauty of the "freak" - because they come in so many fabulous forms in the city - most especially ones such as LA.
I love diversity of thought & freedom of expression - something I've found to be promoted in other areas, but only as long as yours is in agreement with theirs... lol! (yes, generalizing again) I enjoy an environment that promotes embracing new ideas rather than the notion of "this is how it's always been done & why are you making trouble suggesting something new". I like being able to live in an area where there are actual entire communities/neighborhoods of colour that are prosperous - here in MN any of the neighborhoods that would be associated with large groups of people of colour are synonymous with crime & deterioration (whether it's accurate or not I am not commenting on).
For me, environmental surroundings, like-minded community (not identical minded or mimickers), & other environmental elements are things that I would gladly swap material "stuff" for. There is something to be said about the comment that living in a certain location may not mean all that much if you have ZERO money to leave your home. I debate that concept with myself (lol) all the time. How badly do I dream of LA? And, will it be worth it if I have no means to do anything but stay at home? Interesting...
When I do come to LA, whether visiting or moving, I'd love to meet up with you, Sorcerer, & have a spot of tea! (okay, I don't drink tea - but have just always wanted to say that!)... hey, perhaps you can whip up some sort of sorcerer thingy & make this move happen for me, huh?
Thanks for the WONDERFUL post - I'm sending a rep cookie your way...
(it's late, if I rambled without making much sense, please forgive!!!)
Jeez, that actually made me cry! Yeah, no lie! While I'm not really into the whole "celeb" thing - absolutely everything else you said was so beautiful & so much why I long for LA that I just may steal it & quote it some when others constantly ask me WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU TRYING TO MOVE TO LA????
I live in Minnesota & this state undeniably has breathtakingly beautiful natural resources that I have grown to love & appreciate so very much. And, my son, grandson, & the majority of my family are here. Those are all selling points. BUT, LA calls me!
Everything is not financial - although financial means, or lack there of, can seriously impact opportunity. I cannot ever see myself considering moving to anywhere in Texas, ever - no offensive intended to Texans - but, my mindset & the Texan way (stereotypically speaking) just don't mesh.
Weather may be one motivating factor for me to move to LA (as I have health issues that would be better served out of MN winters), but I cannot see myself in many alternative areas. Everyone has different motivating factors. For financial reasons I moved from a lovely "walkable urban village" in Mpls to this suburban nightmare I am in now. I had tried one other stint in the suburbs a few years back but have never quite experienced "home" in any place but the city.
I have gone from a respectable total income of about $65,000 a year to now living on under $1000 per month due to disability. I live on subsidized housing after once owning my own home. I don't require much. There is a possibility that "this" will be the sort of income that I will continue to live on. I don't believe this should necessitate my giving up my hopes, dreams, desires for the future or for a sense of community with like-minded people.
Having scoured the LA rental market (especially for Section 8 housing), I often wonder how on earth "poo folk" (that's when you are REALLY poor & can't even afford the "r") manage to live in these high COL areas & why those who don't have some sort of affinity for them just don't find someplace more affordable. (I realize there are countless reasonable reasons - that was just sort of rhetorical).
While I appreciate the "finer" things in life, I have no fascination with nor need for any of the material. I want the energy & the pulse of the city. I want the cultural diversity & the general open & accepting attitude of our differences & the greater likelihood to see them as our strengths. I love the ocean & find it almost spiritual. I love finding free "entertainment" in a walk through the neighborhood, people watching, & the beauty of the "freak" - because they come in so many fabulous forms in the city - most especially ones such as LA.
I love diversity of thought & freedom of expression - something I've found to be promoted in other areas, but only as long as yours is in agreement with theirs... lol! (yes, generalizing again) I enjoy an environment that promotes embracing new ideas rather than the notion of "this is how it's always been done & why are you making trouble suggesting something new". I like being able to live in an area where there are actual entire communities/neighborhoods of colour that are prosperous - here in MN any of the neighborhoods that would be associated with large groups of people of colour are synonymous with crime & deterioration (whether it's accurate or not I am not commenting on).
For me, environmental surroundings, like-minded community (not identical minded or mimickers), & other environmental elements are things that I would gladly swap material "stuff" for. There is something to be said about the comment that living in a certain location may not mean all that much if you have ZERO money to leave your home. I debate that concept with myself (lol) all the time. How badly do I dream of LA? And, will it be worth it if I have no means to do anything but stay at home? Interesting...
When I do come to LA, whether visiting or moving, I'd love to meet up with you, Sorcerer, & have a spot of tea! (okay, I don't drink tea - but have just always wanted to say that!)... hey, perhaps you can whip up some sort of sorcerer thingy & make this move happen for me, huh?
Thanks for the WONDERFUL post - I'm sending a rep cookie your way...
(it's late, if I rambled without making much sense, please forgive!!!)
I'm glad you made it all the way through my post. Thanks for the kind words. I'm a mad coffee drinker. I'm usually found at the Bourgeois Pig, Psychobabble, Priscilla's or either Starbucks on Hollywood Blvd. I'll drink Earl Grey, Jasmine or Chamomile when I'm in the mood. Follow your dreams, that's my credo.
Man ohh man there are some ignorant people living in L.A. [mod cut; personal attack] Take a look at Census Bureau Home Page
Your arguments might change once you look into the facts. Most people in L.A. do not make a household income of 200k or more. Most definitely don't make enough to sustain the income that is needed to buy a home in L.A.. For those ignorant ones, to buy is too conserve ones income for a rainy day; have 3 months salary saved, substantial 401k as up to 10% committed weekly, investments for retirement, and vacation money left over. I have all this, and I still haven't bought. Do you know why, because I'm waiting for a dumb L.A. local to foreclose. Then I'll move in a buy on the cheap. House poor, that's Los Angeles in a nutshell. At least the majority. Highest foreclosure rate in the country and climbing. OWNED, Mr. Jacksparrow. It's one thing to travel and see other states, it's another to live in them for extended amounts of time. L.A. was the bomb in the 60s and 70s, but now it has become a sprawling unplanned urban nightmare.
Take a look at the average household income for L.A., then take a look at the average cost of a home. It's simple math Einstein.
The cost of entry is high. but Ca. is a state where most of the homeowners owned prior to the price increases. The prices weren't this high in 1999. Unlike other places were 80% of homes are newly built, our homes are older.
People are so silly to think most people living here paid 500k and up for a house. If you bought after 2001 you may have, but again this state isn't newand people lived here long before real estate booms. The income is in line with what the majority of homeowners deal with.
Of course foreclosures are highest here- we have a huge population. Look at the percentage though, you will discover that he low cost of living and so called affordable areas have much higher rates of foreclosure.
I'm glad you made it all the way through my post. Thanks for the kind words. I'm a mad coffee drinker. I'm usually found at the Bourgeois Pig, Psychobabble, Priscilla's or either Starbucks on Hollywood Blvd. I'll drink Earl Grey, Jasmine or Chamomile when I'm in the mood. Follow your dreams, that's my credo.
Can you see I'm a long-winded one myself? lol
Of course I made it through - it was poetry! I'm coming to LA around New Years to not only ring in the New Year in the place I dream of moving, but also to do a little "Pre-Moving Investigation" into housing & such. Maybe we can run into one another then...
I'm curious to see how many people have an emergency savings account and are saving for retirement. People spend so much time talking about owning a home because its the American dream but fail to realize these factors:1. Puting 10% of their income into their 401(K) 2. Have 3-6 months of their income saved in an emergency savings account. The savings rate in America is 0(.Consumer spending, incomes up in December; savings rate worst since 1933 - USATODAY.com) Does any one even know what a Roth IRA is ? A person should get their personal finances in order before even considering buying a house. So many people have their retirement tied up into their house which is sad. A home is a place to live and is not an investment.
We put 20 percent of our income into retirement/pension accounts. And, yes, we also have an emergency savings account.
We don't do Roth IRA's because we're in a pretty high tax bracket and I'd rather be able to make investment income off of the huge chunk my income that would go normally taxes for the next 20 years. When you look at the investment income you can make just on the tax money alone, it really adds up.
With a Roth account you still have to pay tax on your income so, there's not much of a tax break except on the investment income itself. And you don't get to invest the money that you would normally pay in taxes so the benefits are more limited, IMO.
I do look at my home as somewhat of an investment since it will be paid off in 20 years. If at the point we decide to stay, we'll take out a reverse mortgage on the house and get more retirement money that way. If we decide to leave, we'll sell the house and buy a cheaper house elsewhere.
We put 20 percent of our income into retirement/pension accounts. And, yes, we also have an emergency savings account.
We don't do Roth IRA's because we're in a pretty high tax bracket and I'd rather be able to make investment income off of the huge chunk my income that would go normally taxes for the next 20 years. When you look at the investment income you can make just on the tax money alone, it really adds up.
With a Roth account you still have to pay tax on your income so, there's not much of a tax break except on the investment income itself. And you don't get to invest the money that you would normally pay in taxes so the benefits are more limited, IMO.
I do look at my home as somewhat of an investment since it will be paid off in 20 years. If at the point we decide to stay, we'll take out a reverse mortgage on the house and get more retirement money that way. If we decide to leave, we'll sell the house and buy a cheaper house elsewhere.
Here's how to do it if you have kids:
Max out 401(K) to the extent you are not over the pre-tax max
Max out Roth IRAs (2 X $5K) to the extent you are not penalized for high income
Max out Education (Coverdell) IRAs ($2K/year per child) (529s can be expensive and fee based; there are some advantages when factoring individual states' benefits...each situation is different). Also, big deal: Both 529s and Coverdell EIRAs are assets of the parents, neither has an advantage towards financial aid.
Any extra money stick in tax efficient growth funds.
If college dollars are needed later (assuming Coverdell EIRAs and grants are exhausted), gift (do not sell) shares to your kids within the 2 parents X $12K/year per kid limit.
The kid sells the shares at his long term capital gains tax rate which is less than moms and dads and sends the cash to Stanford.
(If you really have lots of extra dough you can each gift $12K to brothers Manny, Moe, and Jack and they can, in the same tax year, each turn around and gift the money to junior - you just gifted $60K to junior tax free.)
Now, if you have any money left over, you can do what we do and eat beans and franks and drink Coors or box wine, and get the majority of your entertainment from City Data Forums.
There is already talk of of taking money out of these IRA's Roth's etc to balance the budget, you are much better to invest yourself than to give the Gov't your money in these so called tax shelters.Sheeple never learn.
I know Dallas, my grandfather on my mother's side lived there. Dreadful place IMHO. Nice looking downtown but the weather and culture and proximity (away from) the ocean are all deal breakers.
You should live in Houston. We have the sea that they don't have!
i live in houston, and i dont think anyone should go to the ocean here. it is very very dirty.
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