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I have been thinking about the concept of Long Island as a product sold by a large company. In traditional business products go from (in very general terms, and a marketing person can correct me):
Early market research/exploration - City folk started to check it out for it's beaches, and maybe more year-round.
Early adoption - early product support comes from a select group who begin to espouse its virtues to others..the first generation immigrants and their families begin to move east.
High growth phase - Everyone rushes in to buy it and the market for the product soars - maybe like the jump start that Levittown received as the "first suburbs" following the war and the continued waves of families moving east.
Saturation/maturation - The marketplace reaches full capacity/need for a product, other competitors emerge and market share begins to decline -
Maybe this is where we stand (and have stood) on Long Island. When you are basicially the launch of the first suburbs in the States you might be bound to reach a point of maturity and the inherent challenges. So what do companies do as the market begins to see other cheaper alternatives, or does not feel a product is worth the investment, or wants to raise its esteem once again. I am not sure, and I would fall into the category of somebody who currently sees benefits in the Long Island product as it pertains to me personally; but maybe others have some recommendations/insights.
My initial thoughts: lean on your strengths as a region - improve (or remind in some instances) citizens of what their investment supports - the Long Island supporters in this forum feel very passionate about some of the region's strengths; streamline costs where possible (a coupon always helps move product); reinvent yourself - why can't Patchogue become like Long Beach east for younger professionals working on the island? Or Hempstead commercial buildings be turned into more working professional/affordable family housing?
I am sure there are others, but for those who are frustrated by the region I do feel that many of the challenges simply stem from the fact they we have been adding on infrastructure and population for a lot longer than other suburbs in the country, and these challenges are bound to emerge unless you remain proactive. Let me throw out two final points. The island is very diverse so many of the challenges some face are not at all present in a town 25 miles away. So I do not mean to generalize. I think it is important when folks discuss the area that they clarify that they are speaking about their specific town in some cases. Second, let's try and avoid the standard rhetoric that the region s**ks or is an irrationale "slice of heaven" and have a healthy debate.
I've always thought that LI is "ahead of the curve" when it comes to infrastructure, schools, housing because we were the first suburb built. This is part of the reason why we are also ahead on the amount of property taxes. We have a higher population and need to maintain more services and infrastructure than the newbie burbs.
As you add more people to the new "hot spots", costs will escalate. Each new kid will cost you money for schools and teachers. More police will be needed. If you moved to a place without a state income tax and are paying for these costs via a local property tax, watch out! Just look at Florida over the past 2 years to see that problem.
So yeah, we are ahead of the curve with expenses, high taxes, and deterioration of the infrastructure, but hopefully we'll be ahead in the revival as well.
I believe you have to factor in one unique feature, geography. Unlike most other suburbs LI can only sprawl one way, East. The other feature is one of it's economic magnets, NYC, is West and at the narrow end. Add more people, add more linear sprawl and you somewhat cut people off from that magnet.
Sorry guys, but I don't see these other places as getting hit with taxes the same way the Island has.
I know what the Island's strengths were back in the days of aerospace, but what are it's strengths now?
Interesting topic and one I've wondered about from time to time.
My parents are witnessing first hand what fopt65 has written about the newbie communities within the so-called hot spots. Taxes on new houses have gone up significantly more than they were a few years back. The schools where my sister lives are county districts (as opposed to the LI model) and they are constantly having to build more schools, add onto exisiting ones and shuffle kids all over the place. Who is paying for the new school construction? Way back when, this wasn't a big thing, but now the area she is in has become desirable and has had people heading there in droves. There are more roads being built, highways, overpasses, libraries, jails, Police and fire departments, more need for garbage collection, utilities, etc.
The area looks like Massapequa with palm trees now. The main roads are infested with the same box stores that infiltrate all of our major roads like Sunrise, Hempstead Tpke and Jericho.
Going back to the OP, Patchogue is poised for renewal should Paul Pontieri's proposal pass. I worked with him years ago and he was a fair and honest man. I actually have confidence in him that he will do the right thing for Patchogue. I can't put my faith so firmly behind any other politician.
In revitalizing our downtowns, LI will once again come full circle. Our original founders settled into communities where they lived, worked, practiced religion and strove for a better life. If affordable housing is put into place in areas where there is a struggling downtown, we can attract and retain young employees to help build up the communities once more. Our politicians should look into attempting to lure large companies back to LI, ones that can offer more for recent local college grads in addition to local people who aren't as well educated but are willing to work hard.
SUNY Stony Brook has employees who win grants for their patents, market them and generate money for the institution. It's done under the auspices of the SUNY system, the money stays within SUNY and doesn't make it out onto LI except by good old trickle down -- housing purchase, car purchase, lunches, you get the idea. Suffolk County should foster a creative think tank park, something that would attract science researchers, computer types, robotics, etc, to generate funds for the county. Build it on county land. Aerospace started out small and grew; this sort of think tank/patent generator could possibly grow, too.
Perhaps we will have to look at some areas which once were suburban as urban and accept that (to some of our chargrin) as inevitable in the face of a growing population on a limited piece of land. By accepting those areas as urban, we can start zoning for slightly larger buildings in key areas: along main routes, near bus terminals, near railroad stations. Let's make an affordable area which is pedestrian friendly, in order to decrease reliance on cars and increase the inherent sense of community which arises from such a setting.
Jrproff mentions abandoned commerical buildings in Hempstead (and there are plenty more all over LI) which would be a great place to start. Adaptive reuse for affordable mixed housing -- apartments to purchase or rent with commerical space below. Proximity to major highways, LIRR, colleges, NYC and the beaches would make it an ideal location. The people of Hempstead are proud of their area and have been trying to eliminate the blight; this could be a much needed boost for them.
I believe you have to factor in one unique feature, geography. Unlike most other suburbs LI can only sprawl one way, East. The other feature is one of it's economic magnets, NYC, is West and at the narrow end. Add more people, add more linear sprawl and you somewhat cut people off from that magnet.
Sorry guys, but I don't see these other places as getting hit with taxes the same way the Island has.
I know what the Island's strengths were back in the days of aerospace, but what are it's strengths now?
Interesting topic and one I've wondered about from time to time.
Thanks for your reply Clark...
I am not sure if I agree entirely with the geography challenge as you described it. As a "mature" product it does have heavy competition even if you just look within the NYC vicinity from all points surrounding the island of Manhattan. In that case there are a lot of places that you can consider if you are interested in working within the economic "magnet"...and when people have a lot of choices you can guarantee they will not always prefer the LI geography (and costs)...although some will and do. As for the linear sprawl you described, I am not sure how that challenge is any different for a city commuter than the sprawl that has occurred in areas like Tampa, ATL, etc. Sprawl is sprawl and traffic is traffic IMO. You get cut off (heavy traffic that is) from the city center in either case regardless of whether or not the development area for housing is finite, like a Long Island. That is separate from the challenge of driving off of the island for other reasons.
I think LI needs to cut back on many administrative layers in local government and school administration along with reviewing what contributions retirees make to benefits. That in my opinion is simply long overdue to correct much fiscal irresponsibility and adds some to our tax burden. But some other areas could see these tax levels on a relative basis (to cost of living) over time. Florida comes to mind. Of course others will not. As an industry center Long Island is challenged due to many cost factors and logistical challenges. What will always keep some jobs in this region, in my opinion, is the concentration of wealth and population that requires a significant "regional" office for most major banks, services industries, and health care, to service the market. I would love to see the Empire state Development initiatives do what areas like southern Connecticut have done with hedge funds, etc, and attract business out of the city center with tax incentives and put the jobs in the bedrooms of the employee population. If the lighthouse project ever evolves this could provide an opportunity to incubate and launch such a program. Much like 110 has developed into a nice corporate center for long islanders.
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SUNY Stony Brook has employees who win grants for their patents, market them and generate money for the institution. It's done under the auspices of the SUNY system, the money stays within SUNY and doesn't make it out onto LI except by good old trickle down -- housing purchase, car purchase, lunches, you get the idea. Suffolk County should foster a creative think tank park, something that would attract science researchers, computer types, robotics, etc, to generate funds for the county. Build it on county land. Aerospace started out small and grew; this sort of think tank/patent generator could possibly grow, too.
In response to your SUNY observation I think what is unfortunate today is that these things do actually exist, they are simply not that successful or well run in my opinion. This could stem from the intermittent attention of local leadership, company apathy, and a lack of accountability to see these incubators and associations make a return on investment. Two significant initiatives that come to mind are the Center of Excellence in Wireless and Information Technology funded by large companies such as CA that resides on SUNY grounds and and the LISTNET group in Great River that is the private sector/non-profit partnership that is supposed to accomplish exactly what you mentioned...it's not happening though.
Read the mission of the Center:
"This Center of Excellence is going to help make Long Island an international powerhouse in high-technology research and economic growth," Governor Pataki said. "The work performed at SUNY Stony Brook - in partnership with other academic and industry leaders - will lead to the development of cutting edge technologies and innovative new products, while also bringing the new high-tech jobs of the 21st century right here to Long Island."
SUNY Stony Brook has employees who win grants for their patents, market them and generate money for the institution. It's done under the auspices of the SUNY system, the money stays within SUNY and doesn't make it out onto LI except by good old trickle down -- housing purchase, car purchase, lunches, you get the idea. Suffolk County should foster a creative think tank park, something that would attract science researchers, computer types, robotics, etc, to generate funds for the county. Build it on county land. Aerospace started out small and grew; this sort of think tank/patent generator could possibly grow, too.
In response to your SUNY observation I think what is unfortunate today is that these things do actually exist, they are simply not that successful or well run in my opinion. This could stem from the intermittent attention of local leadership, company apathy, and a lack of accountability to see these incubators and associations make a return on investment. Two significant initiatives that come to mind are the Center of Excellence in Wireless and Information Technology funded by large companies such as CA that resides on SUNY grounds and and the LISTNET group in Great River that is the private sector/non-profit partnership that is supposed to accomplish exactly what you mentioned...it's not happening though.
Read the mission of the Center:
"This Center of Excellence is going to help make Long Island an international powerhouse in high-technology research and economic growth," Governor Pataki said. "The work performed at SUNY Stony Brook - in partnership with other academic and industry leaders - will lead to the development of cutting edge technologies and innovative new products, while also bringing the new high-tech jobs of the 21st century right here to Long Island."
Where them jobs at???
quote]
They're wrapping up construction on the first of the buildings for the "Center of Excellence..." on the grounds which the state took from Flowerfield through eminent domain. The land is now state property, and through some rather vigorous pursuit by residents in both the Smithtown and Three Village School Districts we'll at least not lose out completely on school tax money we all once received from the property while owned by Flowerfield.
The double-edged sword = SUNY will generate jobs but at a burden to already overtaxed local school taxpayers. Wang/CA is in bed with the President of SUNY Stony Brook -- have you seen what his money has bought on campus?
I am wagering that jobs filled at SUNY's "Center..." will be channeled directly through the university and university affiliates. It would be great to see outside recruitment -- do we hold our collective breath?
I think an incubator would be wonderful on Town or County land where it will contribute positively to the local municipalities as well as school districts.
Mineola is proposing a wonderful addition to its town in the with the building of a 9 story apartment building with underground parking. It will be on Old Country Road at the old Social Services building. Walking distance to the Courts and to the LIRR station.
It think this is a good idea. Really, I can't think of a better building for this area. It already has more than enough commercial buildings, and the fact that the LIRR is within walking distance, and the underground parking will be there will help reduce the congestion that ordinarily would have been produced by the apartments.
This is a good example of "smart" growth.
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Agreed on the costs point.
