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Additional children in the schools.
Increased population = need for more police.
Will the local volunteer FD have enough volunteers and appropriate equipment for the taller structures?
A 10 year tax break. Who will be subsidizing that? The currently over-taxed residents of Brookhaven.
A lack of parking.
Retail jobs, nothing substantial.
No improvements to local infrastructure. Ever been on Portion around 530?
Eminent Domain. Romaine won't admit it, a Tritec employee alluded to it in a personal conversation.
SEQRA is performed by the developer. Fox guarding the hen house.
Done properly, this could be a good thing for SBU and SBUH employees who are starting out. It would help retain graduates and reduce brain drain if more businesses are grown here.
Knowing the quagmire and crooked deals that are hallmarks of LI politics, I doubt this will be all Tritec is hyping it to be.
Last edited by OhBeeHave; 01-17-2014 at 05:04 PM..
Additional children in the schools.
Increased population = need for more police.
Will the local volunteer FD have enough volunteers and appropriate equipment for the taller structures?
A 10 year tax break. Who will be subsidizing that? The currently over-taxed residents of Brookhaven.
A lack of parking.
Retail jobs, nothing substantial.
No improvements to local infrastructure. Ever been on Portion around 530?
Eminent Domain. Romaine won't admit it, a Tritec employee alluded to it in a personal conversation.
SEQRA is performed by the developer. Fox guarding the hen house.
Done properly, this could be a good thing for SBU and SBUH employees who are starting out. It would help retain graduates and reduce brain drain if more businesses are grown here.
Knowing the quagmire and crooked deals that are hallmarks of LI politics, I doubt this will be all Tritec is hyping it to be.
You will have additional students in the schools if cash strapped homeowners start renting out, lobby to convert their properties to multifamily or the worst case where the locality turns to attract homeless shelters for state/federal funding. Or declining enrollment could force districts to close schools.
As for the firefighters, you can get around that by requiring the developer to invest in sufficient fire prevention systems and help fund a full time firefighting staff like what they do in NYC.
Improvements to local infrastructure probably won't be as great of a magnitude if the development is truly walkable and caters to NYC weekday commuters. If people have to drive to strips to buy groceries or to watch movies then you will indeed have infrastructure problems.
Not sure why this development requires a tax break unless the development will be paying for private services like snow plowing, fire prevention, garbage collection and security which I think is a likely arrangement.
It also is not meant to create jobs. It's supposed to make life for those who have jobs (in NYC) easier to manage.
Some of the older communities in Westchester built their own schools to service the villages/towns so as more of these communities emerge they can incorporate that in their planning. Or like the Washington Town Center in NJ where it worked together with Robbinsville to address the increase in student population.
You will have additional students in the schools if cash strapped homeowners start renting out, lobby to convert their properties to multifamily or the worst case where the locality turns to attract homeless shelters for state/federal funding. Or declining enrollment could force districts to close schools.
OR -- and this is the likely scenario -- tenants renting the hub apartments have children. The land being developed was commercial and did not impact school populations. Tritech is marketing the project for young and old.
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As for the firefighters, you can get around that by requiring the developer to invest in sufficient fire prevention systems and help fund a full time firefighting staff like what they do in NYC.
So one little corner of Ronkonkoma should have a paid FD, while the rest of LI does not. If the developer/real estate company's getting a 10 year break -- who is paying for the paid FD?
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Improvements to local infrastructure probably won't be as great of a magnitude if the development is truly walkable and caters to NYC weekday commuters. If people have to drive to strips to buy groceries or to watch movies then you will indeed have infrastructure problems.
Or to go to the doctor, the post office, a burger run, the mechanic, visiting friends, attending school functions, library, or go to work -- not everyone takes a train to work. This is an area that gets congested. Once the track project is completed, how many more people will drive to Ronkonkoma?
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Not sure why this development requires a tax break unless the development will be paying for private services like snow plowing, fire prevention, garbage collection and security which I think is a likely arrangement.
Just a sweetheart deal.
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It also is not meant to create jobs. It's supposed to make life for those who have jobs (in NYC) easier to manage.
Some of the older communities in Westchester built their own schools to service the villages/towns so as more of these communities emerge they can incorporate that in their planning. Or like the Washington Town Center in NJ where it worked together with Robbinsville to address the increase in student population.
See the link. There are no schools planned on these 50 acres, and there has been no mention of PILOT to Sachem.
Long Island has long been in desperate need of housing options, especially for 20 and 30 somethings, that no longer live at home. As someone who fits that mold, I do think this is a generally good idea. However, I think this type of project would be better suited in Nassau or a bit further west in Suffolk. (Granted there are severe space limitations in most areas). I know plenty of people do commute to NYC from Ronkonkoma and even further out, but I can't imagine that many 20 and 30 somethings would want to make that commute. As someone who previously worked down in the Financial District, if I ever worked down there again, I couldn't imagine making the commute from Ronkonkoma. Even Midtown would be quite long.
Not to say there won't be people commuting to NYC from there, but you would get far fewer than if this project was further west. With that being said, its still a considerably better than most the other housing options for 20 and 30 somethings
OR -- and this is the likely scenario -- tenants renting the hub apartments have children. The land being developed was commercial and did not impact school populations. Tritech is marketing the project for young and old.
So one little corner of Ronkonkoma should have a paid FD, while the rest of LI does not. If the developer/real estate company's getting a 10 year break -- who is paying for the paid FD?
Or to go to the doctor, the post office, a burger run, the mechanic, visiting friends, attending school functions, library, or go to work -- not everyone takes a train to work. This is an area that gets congested. Once the track project is completed, how many more people will drive to Ronkonkoma?
Just a sweetheart deal.
I'm attaching a link to Tritec's hub page. On it it cites bringing full and part time employment to LI. The New Ronkonkoma Hub - Check out the new, amazing plans.
See the link. There are no schools planned on these 50 acres, and there has been no mention of PILOT to Sachem.
As it happens, you can do a many of those tasks you mentioned like going to the PO, visiting friends, doctor's office, burger run etc. from some of the older walkable communities like Ridgefield NJ, Princeton NJ and Bronxville NY. These problems and solutions have been brought up before and some communities were successful in dealing with them. As someone in this thread alluded to earlier, the pricing (using the 40x income rule) and configuration does not seem to be appealing to those who work locally. Those who work nearby will have less means and purpose in renting there and if the development is planned properly, you will likely not see a big increase in the use of arterial roads. I would see no point in living in such a place if I had to drive to the train station every day or grocery store after work/on weekends.
Whatever they say about employment, we all know that these will be relatively low pay service and retail jobs. If that is true then jobs do not appear to be the real purpose of this project. I myself have seen very few examples of RE developments becoming job engines for high paying careers in and of themselves, even in NYC.
I think early stage tax breaks are OK depending on what services this development will be providing for itself. If it invests in its own fire prevention and monitoring systems (like what some condos do in NYC), garbage collection, snow clearing etc. then some sort of break could be justified in the first years. If these developments invest in good fire prevention practices and systems then they will have less need for the FD. The use of sprinklers, installation and maintenance of extinguishers and hoses at all floors, hiring personnel who can provide immediate response, good smoke and carbon monoxide detectors and conducting regular drills and discussions with residents are some ways residential developments can mitigate the burden on the FD. The good condos and office buildings in NYC that got tax breaks do this. And more likely they will be hiring 3rd party contractors who will not add to the pension burden.
Schools are a real issue, but this kind of concern has been solved before. Bronxville and Battery Park City built their own schools. WTC helped Robbinsville NJ expand its schools. The solutions are there and it would be a good idea to tell your friendly elected local officials to push back on the developers to contribute their share of the school costs as has been done elsewhere. If NYC officials can do it, not sure why Brookhaven officials can't. The other thing to consider is that if the status quo stays, the schools will eventually face financial difficulties anyway.
As it happens, you can do a many of those tasks you mentioned like going to the PO, visiting friends, doctor's office, burger run etc. from some of the older walkable communities like Ridgefield NJ, Princeton NJ and Bronxville NY. These problems and solutions have been brought up before and some communities were successful in dealing with them. As someone in this thread alluded to earlier, the pricing (using the 40x income rule) and configuration does not seem to be appealing to those who work locally. Those who work nearby will have less means and purpose in renting there and if the development is planned properly, you will likely not see a big increase in the use of arterial roads. I would see no point in living in such a place if I had to drive to the train station every day or grocery store after work/on weekends.
Whatever they say about employment, we all know that these will be relatively low pay service and retail jobs. If that is true then jobs do not appear to be the real purpose of this project. I myself have seen very few examples of RE developments becoming job engines for high paying careers in and of themselves, even in NYC.
I think early stage tax breaks are OK depending on what services this development will be providing for itself. If it invests in its own fire prevention and monitoring systems (like what some condos do in NYC), garbage collection, snow clearing etc. then some sort of break could be justified in the first years. If these developments invest in good fire prevention practices and systems then they will have less need for the FD. The use of sprinklers, installation and maintenance of extinguishers and hoses at all floors, hiring personnel who can provide immediate response, good smoke and carbon monoxide detectors and conducting regular drills and discussions with residents are some ways residential developments can mitigate the burden on the FD. The good condos and office buildings in NYC that got tax breaks do this. And more likely they will be hiring 3rd party contractors who will not add to the pension burden.
Schools are a real issue, but this kind of concern has been solved before. Bronxville and Battery Park City built their own schools. WTC helped Robbinsville NJ expand its schools. The solutions are there and it would be a good idea to tell your friendly elected local officials to push back on the developers to contribute their share of the school costs as has been done elsewhere. If NYC officials can do it, not sure why Brookhaven officials can't. The other thing to consider is that if the status quo stays, the schools will eventually face financial difficulties anyway.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Bronxville is 640 acres, Battery Park City 92 acres with high rise apartments. Ronkonkoma hub is 50 acres, mixed use, no schools. There are already two Post Offices in Ronkonkoma -- the main one not far, but not quite walkable ftom the project. Given the current postal fiscal woes, do you foresee a 3rd one?
Tritec is selling this as job creation. You and I realize it benefits Tritec's employees, and leaves the project with retail which can't support a family.
You keep going back to hired fire department...that's not something that can be done in parcels. LI will end up with hundreds of independent paid fire departments, or a colossal countywide system. Up go everyone's taxes for what is a 50 acre rental project enriching Tritec.
An important consideration....The business and retail component of this is the critical element to success. How much will the rents be? What kind of retailers will they be luring? Without a robust and thriving retail environment the affordable housing element becomes a moot point. And if they are looking to draw younger people who are working in the city, they had better nail the retail side of this project....after all they will be competing with NYC. All these commuters will have a choice of spending their dollars where they are working or back at home (in the HUB). Wherever those dollars go will be key. I don't see the HUB as being much of a "destination" area unless they hit the shopping/retail element out of the park. Ronkonkoma should also be focusing on improving the obvious draw that's already here...the Lake. Clean up the lake, install a walking trail around the entire thing, and improve the town area around Hawkins etc. Bring a main street feel which is lacking. That's another topic entirely.
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